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-   -   Help with rust, Im new... (http://www.fordrangerforum.com/cleaning-and-detailing/32239-help-rust-im.html)

brm1991 04-26-2011 08:05 AM

Help with rust, Im new...
 
Okay, I am getting a 1988 Ford Ranger this week, I think it is a beautiful truck and for it to have just had a new motor in and to be drivable, I figured $600 wouldn't be a bad price for it. I am buying this truck mainly for a project truck, although I am new at this I think it would be a pretty fun experience. The rust spot above the rear tires, How would I be able to fix that on the truck? http://i1031.photobucket.com/albums/...991/ranger.jpg That is what it looks like, thanks for all the answers :)

PurrNaK 04-27-2011 03:29 PM

Re: Help with rust, Im new...
 
You can fiberglass or do some metal work. Either way will be work and will depend on how accessibly the supplies are to you.

I would go for fiberglass just because I find it easier to work with.

Step 1: Get supplies
- Get a fiberglassing kit from a local Wal-Mart or Canadian Tire if in canada or some auto parts store. Should cost around $20-30
- Get some extra fiberglass matting. Once you fiberglass something you will want to do more.
- Get some paintable primary. There are many spray paints that will spray right onto rust to convert it to a primary

Step 2: Prepare the area
- Sand down the rust as much as you can around the area including into the paint 60 grit or 120 grit will do the job fast and give some bite for the fiberglass to stick to.
- Once sanded, spray on the rust to primary and let dry for an hour.

Step 3: I like to cut a piece of cardboard in a thin strip to the shape of the wheel well. This acts as a template and something to push against when building up the fiberglass. This will go on the inside of the wheel well and sit onthe lip. You can hold it in place or tape it in place. Taping makes it easier to use two hands.

Step 4: Follow the directions for making the fiberglass goo. Pure in something like 1-2 cups of the clear liquid and then 14 drops of the hardener. Stir it up good.

Step 5: Rip or cut the fiberglass matting into strips about 4" x 2" and have them ready.

Step 6: Use one hand for dry and one hand for wet or you end up with globs of mess to clean up later. Pick up strip with dry hand and drop into goo. use wet hand to pull it out and apply to the hole aganst the cardboard. Lay "X"s with the strips for strength. I use an old screw driver to tap and position and get the air bubbles out. Do 2-3 layers at a time wait an hour then do another 2-3 layers. Continue until you've filled the hole more than you need since you will be sanding it down when done.

Step 6: Let dry. Takes about 2-4 hours depending on how much hardener you put into the goo. More hardener the faster it dries. More heat the faster it dries. I do fiberglassing in the middle of summer so it dries at a good rate.

Step 7: When it's dry and hard, bust out the sand paper. A sanding block or a drill with a sanding head will work. Go at it with a 40grit and shape it. Don't be afraid to scratch the fiberglass you will be fixing it later. Just get the shape now.

Step 8: If you went fairly deep in shaping it, Add more fiberglass 1-2 layers at a time. Let it dry, sand with 60grit, repeat with 120grit, then 200 grit etc...

Step 8b: If you want you can add some bondo and give it a nice top layer to sand down to flush. I don't bother because I don't usually try for glass.

Step 9: When you have it shaped and it looks pretty good. Give it a sanding with 400Grit. Spray again with your rust primar (Works on rust and fiberglass as a primar). Let dry and sand with 400 grit. Spray with color match or flat black (looks like your truck is flat black, but it might be the pic) Let it dry and wet sand with 600 grit and lots of water until you are happy with it.

The whole thing can take anywhere from 4-12 hours depending on how much work you want to put into it. It's called bodywork and not bodyplay for a reason. Wear something comfortable you don't mind getting dusty. I recommend eye protection and a dust mask.

4LetterWord 04-27-2011 05:27 PM

Re: Help with rust, Im new...
 
NEVER.....Never fiberglass over rust. You plan on keeping this truck as a project? That rust will come back and bite you in the ass hard if you cut even the smallest of corners.

Never rivet metal over, never bondo over and never just scuff and spray over it. Rust will ALWAYS come back. There is only one sure way to "repair" it so that it will be like new and that it to cut the rusted area out and have new metal welded in. "Completely" welded too..not just tacked in or over the rust.

Im guessing you do not have a welder, but finiding someone to weld it in shouldn't be to hard. You can do all the prep yourself and all the finishing.

My job used to be a sheetmetal fabricator for a hot rod and vintage car restoration shop. Take my word for it, I have seen it all. From little rust bubbles to rotted out '69 Camaros the the only original metal left after I was done was the firewall and roof panel. Rust is not a game lol

rangerstranger 04-27-2011 08:34 PM

Re: Help with rust, Im new...
 
yep rust never rest

drppdyllwrngr 04-28-2011 03:26 AM

Re: Help with rust, Im new...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 4LetterWord (Post 405270)
NEVER.....Never fiberglass over rust. You plan on keeping this truck as a project? That rust will come back and bite you in the ass hard if you cut even the smallest of corners.

Never rivet metal over, never bondo over and never just scuff and spray over it. Rust will ALWAYS come back. There is only one sure way to "repair" it so that it will be like new and that it to cut the rusted area out and have new metal welded in. "Completely" welded too..not just tacked in or over the rust.

Im guessing you do not have a welder, but finiding someone to weld it in shouldn't be to hard. You can do all the prep yourself and all the finishing.

My job used to be a sheetmetal fabricator for a hot rod and vintage car restoration shop. Take my word for it, I have seen it all. From little rust bubbles to rotted out '69 Camaros the the only original metal left after I was done was the firewall and roof panel. Rust is not a game lol

x100000000! i'm glad someone finally posted some good rust/body work info! welding a patch panel in (or finding a new bed/bedside, but not needed for the small amount of rust) is the only solution.

fiberglass and metal expand and contract at different rates, and will crack.

4LetterWord 04-28-2011 10:42 AM

Re: Help with rust, Im new...
 
This is photos of the last truck I had. 1990 Dodge Ramcharger 4X4. The first picture is one I zoomed in on that was from the eBay listing. The red arrow shows where you can see a slight vertical line where someone rivited in, fiberglassed and bondoed over rust. The second photo is 3 months and 17 days later.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...CnEDscQ_4k.jpg

Patch panels should not be hard to find, as that spot rusted out in your truck is a common rust spot on almost all trucks. Or you may be able to cut that peice out at your local auto salvage yard.

RedLineRanger 04-28-2011 01:38 PM

Re: Help with rust, Im new...
 
hmm

knightmare1015 04-29-2011 01:29 AM

Re: Help with rust, Im new...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 4LetterWord (Post 405920)
This is photos of the last truck I had. 1990 Dodge Ramcharger 4X4. The first picture is one I zoomed in on that was from the eBay listing. The red arrow shows where you can see a slight vertical line where someone rivited in, fiberglassed and bondoed over rust. The second photo is 3 months and 17 days later.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...CnEDscQ_4k.jpg

Patch panels should not be hard to find, as that spot rusted out in your truck is a common rust spot on almost all trucks. Or you may be able to cut that peice out at your local auto salvage yard.

That didn't take long at all. I used to work at Utility manufacturing installing Light harnesses and "roof skin". They told us to never combine aluminum with stainless steel. They showed us why too. The same results as you showed only worse. It's some kind chemical reaction within the 2 metals. The results you showed, occured in Utility Trailer's exp. in a month.

jbrockell 05-03-2011 09:34 AM

Re: Help with rust, Im new...
 
If you intend to keep the truck for any length of time, you might consider looking at the LMC Truck catalog. Looks like they have patch panels and if you have the money & skill complete bed panels. Depends on how much you want to spend and your skill level.

Glad to see the advice re: cutting out the RUST areas and using a proper patch.

4LetterWord 05-03-2011 12:30 PM

Re: Help with rust, Im new...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by knightmare1015 (Post 406770)
That didn't take long at all. I used to work at Utility manufacturing installing Light harnesses and "roof skin". They told us to never combine aluminum with stainless steel. They showed us why too. The same results as you showed only worse. It's some kind chemical reaction within the 2 metals. The results you showed, occured in Utility Trailer's exp. in a month.

It's called galvanic corrosion. Thats why you do not see aluminum spoke nipples for motorcycle rims. Only dirt bikes that use aluminum rims. Motorcycles usually use steel rims. This would in time cause failure of the wheel assembly.

knightmare1015 05-03-2011 03:13 PM

Re: Help with rust, Im new...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 4LetterWord (Post 410609)
It's called galvanic corrosion. Thats why you do not see aluminum spoke nipples for motorcycle rims. Only dirt bikes that use aluminum rims. Motorcycles usually use steel rims. This would in time cause failure of the wheel assembly.

That was the term I was looking for, thanks. Yeah they told us that if any aluminum that came into contact with stainless steel, we had to cover the aluminum part with Mylar tape to prevent galvanic corrosion. But they only wanted the side covered that makes contact with the steel. Why they didn't use steel on steel is beyond me, but that's how it went.

----------

I think the best way to repair rust in sheet metal is to replace the sheet metal. Sometimes you can get away with a patch panel or to, but sometimes it is cheaper to replace the entire panel itself. It's really a judgement call based on exp.

Botta Ranger 05-04-2011 05:06 AM

Re: Help with rust, Im new...
 
If it's not structural, DO NOT WELD. Why? Because it's not as rust resistant and a lot harder to do. Is it any good? Lots of new car panels are bonded instead of welded.

http://www.amazon.com/Automix-Bonding-Adhesive-Cartridge-3M-8116/dp/B0013HBPQW/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=automotive&qid=1304510376&sr=1-2
Panel Bonding Adhesive 08116, 200 mL Cartridge, 6/cs Two-part epoxy used to bond steel, aluminum, SMC, and FRP (traditional fiberglass). The primary use is to replace quarter panels, roofs, box sides, van sides, utility vehicle sides and door skins. Meets GM 6449G & Chrysler MS-CD 507.

There are other brands. Some car parts stores have them. 2 minutes to 30 minutes.

Expensive? Yes.
Compared to welding? No.

4LetterWord 05-04-2011 11:28 AM

Re: Help with rust, Im new...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Botta Ranger (Post 411469)
If it's not structural, DO NOT WELD. Why? Because it's not as rust resistant and a lot harder to do. Is it any good? Lots of new car panels are bonded instead of welded.

Amazon.com: Automix? Panel Bonding Adhesive , 200 mL Cartridge, 6/cs 3M-8116: Automotive

Panel Bonding Adhesive 08116, 200 mL Cartridge, 6/cs Two-part epoxy used to bond steel, aluminum, SMC, and FRP (traditional fiberglass). The primary use is to replace quarter panels, roofs, box sides, van sides, utility vehicle sides and door skins. Meets GM 6449G & Chrysler MS-CD 507.

There are other brands. Some car parts stores have them. 2 minutes to 30 minutes.

Expensive? Yes.
Compared to welding? No.


I have to completely disagree. Welding costs almost nothing. I have used that 3M panel bonding adhesive before, while it is good stuff, it has it's applications, and putting a patch panel in should not be one of them. If he was replacing his intire bed side, then yeah, this would be an "okay" substitute for welding it on. But for replacing a wheelwell lip. Welding is the cheapest and best way to achieve a proper repair.

Examples of things I have used this stuff on, as well as what its best used for: Fiberglass bodied cars (bonding strips) Molding in body kits to steel cars. But also in use with mounting hardware.

Welding costs using a small DIY 120V MIG welder : About $3 used off a $8 spool of flux-core .023 wire. And about $5-10 added on to your eletric bill.

Paying someone to weld it: Rates vary but typically $45 per hour. The area rusted in his photo looked like it could be welded up in 2 hours time if he does the prep and finishing himself.

Panel Bonding adhesive: $35-45 for just ONE tube. Will take anywhere from 2-3 tubes to mount a bedside quarter panel. Applicator gun (makes it much, MUCH easier) anywhere from $45-300.

You can buy a 120V Hobart, Lincoln or Craftsman welder that can be used at home for less than $300 and use it for many years to come. Not just on this one project. When you buy a welder, you find yourself repairing your bedsides, exhaust pipes, shaving door handles, repairing your BBQ grill, fixing your kids swingset, re-enforcing that wobbley wheel on your tractor...

Lastly, I can post photos of results using 3M panel bonding adhesive. In some applications it is the only thing to use. Like when I moulded 70's AMC fiberglass hood scoops on the hood of my 2004 Chevy Colorado (also using mechanical fasteners). After 4 years very small hair line cracks started showing in the paint where the scoops were bonded on. Had a good run!

drppdyllwrngr 05-04-2011 01:43 PM

Re: Help with rust, Im new...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 4LetterWord (Post 411697)
I have to completely disagree. Welding costs almost nothing. I have used that 3M panel bonding adhesive before, while it is good stuff, it has it's applications, and putting a patch panel in should not be one of them. If he was replacing his intire bed side, then yeah, this would be an "okay" substitute for welding it on. But for replacing a wheelwell lip. Welding is the cheapest and best way to achieve a proper repair.

Examples of things I have used this stuff on, as well as what its best used for: Fiberglass bodied cars (bonding strips) Molding in body kits to steel cars. But also in use with mounting hardware.

Welding costs using a small DIY 120V MIG welder : About $3 used off a $8 spool of flux-core .023 wire. And about $5-10 added on to your eletric bill.

Paying someone to weld it: Rates vary but typically $45 per hour. The area rusted in his photo looked like it could be welded up in 2 hours time if he does the prep and finishing himself.

Panel Bonding adhesive: $35-45 for just ONE tube. Will take anywhere from 2-3 tubes to mount a bedside quarter panel. Applicator gun (makes it much, MUCH easier) anywhere from $45-300.

You can buy a 120V Hobart, Lincoln or Craftsman welder that can be used at home for less than $300 and use it for many years to come. Not just on this one project. When you buy a welder, you find yourself repairing your bedsides, exhaust pipes, shaving door handles, repairing your BBQ grill, fixing your kids swingset, re-enforcing that wobbley wheel on your tractor...

Lastly, I can post photos of results using 3M panel bonding adhesive. In some applications it is the only thing to use. Like when I moulded 70's AMC fiberglass hood scoops on the hood of my 2004 Chevy Colorado (also using mechanical fasteners). After 4 years very small hair line cracks started showing in the paint where the scoops were bonded on. Had a good run!

agreed! i got lucky and found an applicator gun with a cartridge of SCM to fiberglass for less than $100 on ebay. they ain't cheap.

4LetterWord 05-04-2011 02:11 PM

Re: Help with rust, Im new...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by drppdyllwrngr (Post 411856)
agreed! i got lucky and found an applicator gun with a cartridge of SCM to fiberglass for less than $100 on ebay. they ain't cheap.

Here is the Mixpac gun I use. $500!!!!

http://www.shop3m.com/60980024495.html

haha My boss bought it for about $400 4 years ago. Definately not worth the money. $500 to squeeze out goop in a 1:1 ratio? Its only a modified caulk gun...you know like those things you buy a home depot for $2.99. Even the cheap ones are raping your wallet.


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