Another murderer walks

[AmericanPride!]

I'm just fucking steamed. I don't know where the original story is and I'm too pissed to look right now.

A cop sits in an unmarked blacked out car in a florists parking lot in the middle of the night. The owner who was like 70 something, a pastor for many years, etc...sees a suspicious car on his property and grabs his sidearm to investigate. Because he refused to throw his gun in a rock parking lot and put it in his waist band instead, the cop orders him to his knees. He complies with the cop and kneels down. And because he "made a movement" towards his waistband. The cop murders him in cold blood.

While the guy lay on the ground bleeding out, his wife of 50+ years tries to come to his aide, but is restrained and forced to watch her husband die before her eyes.

Why was the cop on his property you may ask... to "watch" a suspicious house down the street. He had a good view from there.

What repercussions did the cop receive you may ask? He went on PAID administrative leave and went on vacation out of state.

When will they be accountable for their own fuck ups? This isn't the first time here and I highly doubt the last.
After the feds came in to see why there were so many brutality complaints and officer involved shootings, they suggested they get body cameras for all the officers to hold them accountable and protect both themselves and citizens. The city agreed and said within 2 years they'll all have them. Now they say they're just "thinking" about them and chose to put officers through some retraining instead.

I remember some people who were above the law in the past. They didn't have badges though, they wore swastikas on their uniforms.

Sorry for the bantering, but this has to stop!
http://m.khq.com/w/news/story/94234088/

[DARKSIDE]

Agreed this is just ridiculous. I hear about police brutality all the time.

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[Mudstomper99]

This stuff makes me mad! Monday morning quarter backing the officers decision. If the old man would have just laid out and not made any movements he would not be in the situation. the cop was doing his job and giving demands to drop the gun. If you are in that situation just drop the damn gun he announced his presence that he was a cop he should have listened. he was doing his job point blank. THe ol man took a gun to a gun fight he just lost its sad to say but it happens. And the restraining the wife is just scene preservation so they can investigate 100%.
This is my only post so you guys can bash away on this topic

[AmericanPride!]

Originally Posted by Mudstomper99

This stuff makes me mad! Monday morning quarter backing the officers decision. If the old man would have just laid out and not made any movements he would not be in the situation. the cop was doing his job and giving demands to drop the gun. If you are in that situation just drop the damn gun he announced his presence that he was a cop he should have listened. he was doing his job point blank. THe ol man took a gun to a gun fight he just lost its sad to say but it happens. And the restraining the wife is just scene preservation so they can investigate 100%.
This is my only post so you guys can bash away on this topic

The cop was illegally trespassing. The home owner was within his rights to investigate a suspicious person on his own posted private property. The cop should have identified himself, apologized, and gotten the fuck off his property.

Like I said, that wasn't the whole story. You're assuming just because he was a cop, no wrong was done

[bear_claw_91]

Originally Posted by Mudstomper99

This stuff makes me mad! Monday morning quarter backing the officers decision. If the old man would have just laid out and not made any movements he would not be in the situation. the cop was doing his job and giving demands to drop the gun. If you are in that situation just drop the damn gun he announced his presence that he was a cop he should have listened. he was doing his job point blank. THe ol man took a gun to a gun fight he just lost its sad to say but it happens. And the restraining the wife is just scene preservation so they can investigate 100%.
This is my only post so you guys can bash away on this topic

Disagree. The cop was in an unmarked car. How was the old man supposed to know who the hell this guy in some car parked on private property is? Sure maybe the cop said "I'm a police officer." That doesn't mean shit. You hear stories all the time of people pretending to be cops then robbing people or killing them.

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[DARKSIDE]

Originally Posted by rbachjr

Disagree. The cop was in an unmarked car. How was the old man supposed to know who the hell this guy in some car parked on private property is? Sure maybe the cop said "I'm a police officer." That doesn't mean shit. You hear stories all the time of people pretending to be cops then robbing people or killing them.

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Very good point!

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[Tom]

Originally Posted by rbachjr

Disagree. The cop was in an unmarked car. How was the old man supposed to know who the hell this guy in some car parked on private property is? Sure maybe the cop said "I'm a police officer." That doesn't mean shit. You hear stories all the time of people pretending to be cops then robbing people or killing them.

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Story says the guy was in his full uniform.

[tomdmcpwn]

Originally Posted by rbachjr

Disagree. The cop was in an unmarked car. How was the old man supposed to know who the hell this guy in some car parked on private property is? Sure maybe the cop said "I'm a police officer." That doesn't mean shit. You hear stories all the time of people pretending to be cops then robbing people or killing them.

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In that case, he would have been killed whether or not it was a cop, just for reaching toward the gun. I'm sure there are defendable points for both sides of the story. If the man was making a movement to his waist, where the gun is, that is blatantly going against what the officer said. If he kept his hands on his head, he'd still be alive. I'm not saying that I'm on the officer's side, per say. I'm going to do my own research before jumping to conclusions. Just playing The Devil's Advocate.

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Originally Posted by AmericanPride!

The cop was illegally trespassing. The home owner was within his rights to investigate a suspicious person on his own posted private property. The cop should have identified himself, apologized, and gotten the fuck off his property.

Like I said, that wasn't the whole story. You're assuming just because he was a cop, no wrong was done

I agree with this 100%. But I just don't understand why the man felt it to be necessary to reach for his gun when the officer directed him to do otherwise.

[bear_claw_91]

Originally Posted by Tom

Story says the guy was in his full uniform.

Didn't see that. I just skimmed it. Even still, I don't think that the cop gave the guy much of a chance

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[AmericanPride!]

Originally Posted by Tom

Story says the guy was in his full uniform.

It was the middle of the night. Kinda dark. Never the less...in this situation the cop was the criminal by tresspass

Originally Posted by tomdmcpwn

I agree with this 100%. But I just don't understand why the man felt it to be necessary to reach for his gun when the officer directed him to do otherwise.

Who says he did? ******* cop all worked up shoots an innocent man...he's gonna tell the truth?

Yes sir...I killed the guy because I "thought" he was reaching for his gun. Or...? Exactly

[bear_claw_91]

Originally Posted by AmericanPride!

It was the middle of the night. Kinda dark. Never the less...in this situation the cop was the criminal by tresspass

Who says he did? ******* cop all worked up shoots an innocent man...he's gonna tell the truth?

Yes sir...I killed the guy because I "thought" he was reaching for his gun. Or...? Exactly

That's kinda what I was thinking too...

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[Tom]

Originally Posted by rbachjr

Didn't see that. I just skimmed it. Even still, I don't think that the cop gave the guy much of a chance

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Just to play devils advocate... what makes you think he didn't give the guy much of a chance?

If the cops story is true... that the guy was argumentative, refused to comply, guy refused to get on the ground... then the guy reached in his waistband... and then the cop fired. What do you feel the cop should've done? At what point would you say the shooting was justified?

...or are you just saying you don't believe the cops story? Which is hard to prove either way... and definitely hard to prove beyond a reasonable doubt any guilt.

Originally Posted by AmericanPride!

It was the middle of the night. Kinda dark. Never the less...in this situation the cop was the criminal by tresspass

Entering the parking lot of a business is not criminal trespass. Neither if a citizen does it nor especially if a cop does it.

[AmericanPride!]

Originally Posted by Tom

Entering the parking lot of a business is not criminal trespass. Neither if a citizen does it nor especially if a cop does it.

It wasn't just a businesses. It was his personal residence with no trespassing signs. So yes, it was trespassing.

Once the cop identified himself and the guy put his gun in his waist band, the cop should have pulled a "my bad, I'm leaving now"

Like I said...not all the facts were in that article. The rest is like 3 years back

[LilRanger93]

Originally Posted by Tom

Just to play devils advocate... what makes you think he didn't give the guy much of a chance?

If the cops story is true... that the guy was argumentative, refused to comply, guy refused to get on the ground... then the guy reached in his waistband... and then the cop fired. What do you feel the cop should've done? At what point would you say the shooting was justified?

...or are you just saying you don't believe the cops story? Which is hard to prove either way... and definitely hard to prove beyond a reasonable doubt any guilt.



Entering the parking lot of a business is not criminal trespass. Neither if a citizen does it nor especially if a cop does it.

Thank you.

As far the "trespassing" goes, its not trespassing if the the parking lot doesn't have a closed gate preventing entry. If the lot is an open lot and there aren't any CLEARLY POSTED "NO TRESPASSING" SIGNS, that means anybody can go onto it at any time.

Its easy to say what the officer should have, could have, would have done when you have all the time in the world to assess the situation. When you are in the officer's shoes and only have moments to make a decision that is life and death, is the difference between you going back home to your family at the end of the night or being buried by your fellow officers; you're not gonna sit there and "guess" if the subject is going pull a gun on you or wait until he does and points it at you and then react.

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Originally Posted by AmericanPride!

It wasn't just a businesses. It was his personal residence with no trespassing signs. So yes, it was trespassing.

Once the cop identified himself and the guy put his gun in his waist band, the cop should have pulled a "my bad, I'm leaving now"

Like I said...not all the facts were in that article. The rest is like 3 years back

Actually, once the officer identified himself, the guy should have kept his hands in plain view, notified the officer that he has a firearm on his person and complied with the officer's orders. If he didn't like the officer being there, he should have requested his supervisor to come and explain his grievances to the supervisor rather than confronting the officer with a firearm and refusing to comply with his orders.

[Tom]

Originally Posted by AmericanPride!

It wasn't just a businesses. It was his personal residence with no trespassing signs. So yes, it was trespassing.

No it was not trespassing. Just because he lives there doesn't change the fact that it's a parking lot to a business. It's open and accessible to the public. It's just a parking lot...

Originally Posted by AmericanPride!

Once the cop identified himself and the guy put his gun in his waist band, the cop should have pulled a "my bad, I'm leaving now"

That's a fair argument. However, there's only one person who truly knows what happened between that point and the shooting... and that's the cop.

If you want to call the cop a liar or etc. that's your opinion. But there's no real evidence either way. So it shouldn't be a shock that the cop is not facing discipline... and definitely shouldn't be a shock that he isn't being charged criminally. There's no way to prove any of it beyond a reasonable doubt.