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  #31  
Old 10-22-2009, 09:04 AM
Johnbaum13 Johnbaum13 is offline
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Hate to correct you since you have alot of good info there, but......

The VWs never had a Porsche engine. A more accurate statement would be that early Porsches had modified VW engines, But even that would be a stretch. Sure they were both horizontally opposed air cooled 4 cylinder motors, but they had lots of differences. Then Porsche stepped up to a larger, far different motor, and then to the flat 6. And since the 90s, Porsches have been water cooled.

And most of all, the "Super" Beetle had the same 1600cc dual port motor as all the other V-Dubs of the time. It's difference was that it was 3" longer and had a McPherson strut front suspension. All that made it heavier, and therefore slower. Also the front suspension is prone to premature wear, hard to get aligned properly, and all around inferior to the twin trailing arm suspension on the standard Beetle. Not very "Super" at all.

Also of note, the Porsche Boxster is only the second mid engined road car Porsche has made, the first being the 914. And the Boxster motor is a water cooled flat 6. So obviously the original VWs didn't have the Boxster motor. The horizontally opposed (flat) motor had been referred to as a boxer motor before, so I assume thats what you meant. Still not a Porsche motor.

BTW, the Porsche 914 and 924s were powered by VW motors.

[/Porsche history lesson]
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Last edited by Johnbaum13; 10-22-2009 at 09:06 AM.
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  #32  
Old 10-22-2009, 09:12 AM
02'4.04x4 02'4.04x4 is offline
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hmm.
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  #33  
Old 10-22-2009, 09:18 AM
Johnbaum13 Johnbaum13 is offline
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Yeah, I'm kinda a bit of an German rear-engined car fan. Don't know a whole lot about VWs after they went front engined though.
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  #34  
Old 10-22-2009, 09:54 AM
02'4.04x4 02'4.04x4 is offline
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Hmm, well you are alot more into it than I. I refer to the modified Vdub engine's as Porsche engines. They played with comp. ratio's and what not. I must have the wrong Bug about having the higher HP "Porsche design motor". You are right about the Boxer engines I just refer to them as the Boxster, as I am a Porsche fan and they were made ever so popular by the original Speedster, "Boxster". If one wanted to be exacting then we could go back to Adolf and Ferdinand, but I would fall short about the details. VW was the production company and someone bought their motors and modded them to be their own, to me that means their own. Like today Tower is the main manufacturer of Frames. But I've never seen a Tower Ranger. . . Not to be smart just to share my way of thinking. Since 98' in RoW and 99' in US the 911's have been watercooled, As for the 924's, and the funny little 914's that shear in half on the track. I know they are the shared VW motors, but the topic was concerning the Crossfire, the Beetle, the Boxster and the 911's. If you noticed I did not reference the Boxster as having the spoiler for cooling purpouses today. Darn it, I cannot recall the release that was supposed to have the Porsche modded engine and I cannot seem to find it. I'll ask a buddy.
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Last edited by 02'4.04x4; 10-22-2009 at 01:32 PM.
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  #35  
Old 10-22-2009, 03:30 PM
blueovelboy blueovelboy is offline
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ok dose Porsche have a oil cooled motor? and what years did that come out and what where thay in?
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  #36  
Old 10-22-2009, 04:59 PM
02'4.04x4 02'4.04x4 is offline
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Depends commonly called air cooled, but also referred to as oil cooled. . .
Hmmm, considering Porsche designed the first VW I would say quite some time ago. . .
They were a development design company that opened in 30-31, but didn't make a branded car until 39.
Oddly they just designed the cars. . . and motors. . . that VW built as requested buy the Deustche Govt.
. . . . . So this is another little part in my saying porsche motor. . . But most don't know this. . .

But much love anyways. . . !
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Last edited by 02'4.04x4; 10-22-2009 at 05:04 PM.
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  #37  
Old 10-22-2009, 08:57 PM
Johnbaum13 Johnbaum13 is offline
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I understand who designed them, and under what circumstances, But Dr. Ferdinand designed the motor for VW. He also designed the motor for Porsche. But then again, the Porsche corporation designed the Duratech motor for Mazda, so is it a Porshe motor? Just remember, the Porsche motors differed all the way down to the engine case. To me they are as different as a Ford and a Buick small block V8.

But either way, I'm curious about the Beetle package that had a Porsche motor, since I can always learn something new.
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  #38  
Old 10-22-2009, 09:08 PM
02'4.04x4 02'4.04x4 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnbaum13 View Post
I understand who designed them, and under what circumstances, But Dr. Ferdinand designed the motor for VW. He also designed the motor for Porsche. But then again, the Porsche corporation designed the Duratech motor for Mazda, so is it a Porshe motor? Just remember, the Porsche motors differed all the way down to the engine case. To me they are as different as a Ford and a Buick small block V8.

But either way, I'm curious about the Beetle package that had a Porsche motor, since I can always learn something new.
I called but did not catch him to find out about the Bug. On to the engines wow, what a debate about cooling attributes. Well. I said that they were Porsche engines to begin with, goofy. Depending on how one wanted to view it it could be called a couple of ways due to the situation in which it came to be. Umm some were different all the way down to the blocks, but the early on ones weren't. They were simply upgraded and modified versions. Of course when they went to the bigger motor then the Kafer could bear, then they had to have a little somthin' different. On to the Mazda are you just trying to razz me here. I said about the Porsche engines if you buy it or make it your own then it is your own. . . . .
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  #39  
Old 10-22-2009, 09:29 PM
Johnbaum13 Johnbaum13 is offline
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Meh, my whole original point was that VWs had VW motors, not Porsche motors, but now we've gotten into neo-nazi politics, and whether or not the Porsches were using VW motors. They were designed by the same man, shared a few components (in the early days), and had the same basic configuration. So I think we're almost in agreement now.


Just one last quick stab about "bigger than the Kafer could bear", I've built a few VW motors bigger and with more power than the Porsches ever had when they were 4 cyl motors, and the 1930's design held up pretty well.......

Either way, interwebz beer for you, you made many good points, and I enjoy a good discussion, but I'm off to bed now.

Prosit!
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  #40  
Old 10-22-2009, 09:33 PM
Johnbaum13 Johnbaum13 is offline
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Oh, and yes, I was just trying to razz you with the Mazda thrown in there, but yes, the Duratech motor was designed by Porsche, and tweeked by Mazda for producibility.
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