Pretty chilling video - Page 2

surfer03133 · #16 04-06-2010, 02:03 PM

if you can spot the shadow of a weapon from the video, you can spot the kids in the front window of the van. the radio messages clearly indicate the pilots intended on killing all of them and that includes the guy they hit and was crawling for safety. They admitted he was unarmed and still shot him.
Heres a question: If the group of men were insurgents, wouldn't they try to hide from the apaches? Wouldn't they try to at least take out on of the helicopters with their "RPG". Why would they all stand close to eachother and let the apaches shoot them?

For those who say they shouldn't be in a war-zone- it is where they live. there were no insurgents or terrorists in Iraq prior to the US occupation. Where do you expect these people go? the US military is all over the country, but doesn't provide security for the iraqis that live there.
One thing is for certain- the families of all of those killed are certainly supporting the insurgents now.

STL · #17 04-06-2010, 02:11 PM

When media is on the ground doing anything they are required to wear vest that say MEDIA on the front and back. I dont see either one with such vest.

When these terrorist are sending young children out with bombs strapped to them. To befriend the troops then blow them selves up. You cant really say "o well it's just a kid" I'm not gonna be on the defensive.

Those people pulling up in the an should have been waving a white flag or something. Signaling they were not terrorist. How are people 1000 feet in the area suppose to know?

01_ranger_4x4 · #18 04-06-2010, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by surfer03133

if you can spot the shadow of a weapon from the video, you can spot the kids in the front window of the van. the radio messages clearly indicate the pilots intended on killing all of them and that includes the guy they hit and was crawling for safety. They admitted he was unarmed and still shot him.
Heres a question: If the group of men were insurgents, wouldn't they try to hide from the apaches? Wouldn't they try to at least take out on of the helicopters with their "RPG". Why would they all stand close to eachother and let the apaches shoot them?

For those who say they shouldn't be in a war-zone- it is where they live. there were no insurgents or terrorists in Iraq prior to the US occupation. Where do you expect these people go? the US military is all over the country, but doesn't provide security for the iraqis that live there.
One thing is for certain- the families of all of those killed are certainly supporting the insurgents now.

how do you know what range the apache pilots were firing from? its very likely the insurgents had no clue they were even being watched. the range on those choppers is amazing. did you ever stop to think that maybe there where troops on the ground that the chopper may have been covering? it seems you are very ignorant to the way combat works and im not going to get into a pissing match with you about it, but untill you know the details of what really happened in this video and the moments leading up to it i suggest you not speculate about it. where you there? do you know these were innocent civilians or do you just believe everything the liberal hippy media tells you to believe? also there is such a thing called collateral damage and unfortunately its a fact of life when youre in combat with the enemy. also iraqi civilians ARE allowed to carry weapons, but there are often curfews in effect where no one is allowed on the streets with a weapon during certain times of the day or night and if they break the curfew they are considered hostile and are dealt with accordingly. how do you know there wasnt a no weapons curfew in effect? theres so much you or i dont know about the situation to be able pass judgment on these soldiers. if they purposely killed innocent civilians for the sake of killing than shame on them, but untill i know the entire story they are innocent untill proven guilty.

surfer03133 · #19 04-06-2010, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 01_ranger_4x4

did you ever stop to think that maybe there where troops on the ground that the chopper may have been covering?

If you paid attention to the radio transmissions they state that there are no troops in the area. It took 8 minutes for the nearest troops to reach the area. Since when are RPGS 2 feet long, black, have lenses, and are fired from the hip?
It is the audio that is what is the real problem. They acted like it was a game, they laughed at them as they were killing them and then as the humvee rolled over a body. They showed no respect or remorse for killing another human being.
Also, this was covered up for 2 years, the military clearly felt it shouldn't be released to the public, but somehow, the video of snipers killing american soldiers was ok? that doesn't add up.

01_ranger_4x4 · #20 04-06-2010, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by surfer03133

If you paid attention to the radio transmissions they state that there are no troops in the area. It took 8 minutes for the nearest troops to reach the area. Since when are RPGS 2 feet long, black, have lenses, and are fired from the hip?
It is the audio that is what is the real problem. They acted like it was a game, they laughed at them as they were killing them and then as the humvee rolled over a body. They showed no respect or remorse for killing another human being.
Also, this was covered up for 2 years, the military clearly felt it shouldn't be released to the public, but somehow, the video of snipers killing american soldiers was ok? that doesn't add up.

no, they said there were no troops east of there location, most likely meaning they were making sure they would not have friendlies in there sector of fire. at no point did they say there were no troops anywhere in the area. judging by the fact that it took ONLY 8 minutes for ground troops to get there means they were actually pretty close in the area. had they had to respond from a nearby FOB or camp it would have most likely taken much more than 8 minutes. i can understand why some one like you who clearly has no knowledge of combat and whats actually happening in iraq would feel the way you do but i can assure you, theres way more to the story than what this hippy propaganda is trying to push on the sheeple in the US. also judging by some of youre ealier comments made about the militarys actions in iraq that you have a clear distain for our military. if thats the case than so be it, but for so many people like myself that have been there, and have been shot at and blown up by the "innocent" insurgents, comments like this one: "the US army was only protecting the oil sites and the palaces" and this one: "the US military is all over the country, but doesn't provide security for the iraqis that live there." we take offense to that because it couldnt be further from the truth. i spent a year over there helping rebuild towns and supplying gear to the iraqi army and police as well as construction supplies that helped open schools that had been closed since the saddam rein of power. not too mention the water, and food that i hauled to supply towns of CIVILIANS with, all the while dodging bullets and IED's. you have no clue about whats going on over there clearly so id suggest you tone it down a little untill you can educate yourself about the situation a little more.

TurdFX4 · #21 04-06-2010, 03:24 PM

It looked justified to me, just my opinion. I wasnt there, Im just going by what i saw.

surfer03133 · #22 04-06-2010, 03:33 PM

actually the comments made about the US military in Iraq come from my friend who lived in Iraq for 16 years, probably a bit longer than you were there. I believe him more than I believe the news organizations that claim "20 insurgents killed today". He has told me that his house had power and running water for maybe 2 hours a day after the invasion. When Saddam was in power they had uninterrupted power and running water. He has told me the things he has seen, with looting and chaos just blocks away from US troops, while US troops sat there and watched. Maybe you should take a look from the perspective of an Iraqi civilian who had to go through both wars to understand what the people are feeling.
And please tell me: Why are we there in the first place?

01_ranger_4x4 · #23 04-06-2010, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by surfer03133

And please tell me: Why are we there in the first place?

why dont you tell me? you seem to think you know it all, so enlighten me.

surfer03133 · #24 04-06-2010, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 01_ranger_4x4

why dont you tell me? you seem to think you know it all, so enlighten me.

I have no idea why. Neither does my friend. I'm not trying to put down the US military, i support the military's efforts in Afghanistan. I am opposed to the war in Iraq (surprise), but i don't fault the military for that. However, when stuff like this surfaces, it needs to be looked into further. I don't agree with what these pilots did as individuals. They showed no remorse after learning they shot two kids, and don't say well the terrorists blow kids up, because that is just putting yourself at the same level as terrorists.

Johnbaum13 · #25 04-06-2010, 06:06 PM

As a soldier, if you screamed and cried every time you had to kill someone, you would be worthless.

Lord of War · #26 04-06-2010, 07:26 PM

They got what they deserved. If you haven't been over there or ever been shot at in a combat situation then you cant make judgement.

edgeman4.0 · #27 04-06-2010, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnbaum13

Looks to me like they followed protocol. Maybe it was nothing, but how many lives would have been lost if the military hadn't taken action. War isn't pretty, and you can't win a war by being nice. These weren't random pedestrians, these were people in a war zone, determined to have weapons, therefore the enemy. As far as the kids go, how stupid are you to drive into an active zone, right after the area was strafed my helicopters, with your kids in the car and the choppers still hovering? Personally, Id rather a couple of reporters in the wrong place with the wrong people die, than those people later shoot at my cousin, and possibly kill him. This is war people, quit thinking it's supposed to be candy canes and teddy bears.

Couldnt have sait it better myself..

Quote:

Originally Posted by smakes

i thought the term was lollipops and teddy bears?

oh wait.. i did.lol thanks smakes for fixing that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by surfer03133

I have no idea why. Neither does my friend. I'm not trying to put down the US military, i support the military's efforts in Afghanistan. I am opposed to the war in Iraq (surprise), but i don't fault the military for that. However, when stuff like this surfaces, it needs to be looked into further. I don't agree with what these pilots did as individuals. They showed no remorse after learning they shot two kids, and don't say well the terrorists blow kids up, because that is just putting yourself at the same level as terrorists.

sounds like your friendship may be giving you a biased opinion, leading you to post this hippy propaganda.

the shooting was justified. those reporters were at the wrong place, at the wrong time. happens every day. this video is something that a bunch of bleeding heart liberals got ahold of to make everyone feel bad about some journalists "un-timely death" at the hands of the U.S. Military.. I call bullshit. Perhaps a career change should have been in order before they took that trip.

I believe it was you that i told this to before, as you've seen it quoted through this thread already, "Its not always lollipops and teddy bears in the streets". the sooner you realize that, the clearer you'll see.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord of War

They got what they deserved. If you haven't been over there or ever been shot at in a combat situation then you cant make judgement.

i totally agree.

01_ranger_4x4 · #28 04-07-2010, 02:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnbaum13

As a soldier, if you screamed and cried every time you had to kill someone, you would be worthless.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord of War

They got what they deserved. If you haven't been over there or ever been shot at in a combat situation then you cant make judgement.

Amen!

i was at the local VFW the other day and i saw a sticker on an old vietnam vets car that read "If you havent been there, SHUT YOUR MOUTH!!" i think thats very fitting in this case.

chaserx · #29 04-07-2010, 07:19 AM

If you can't stand behind them feel free to stand infront of them.

surfer03133 · #30 04-07-2010, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chaserx

If you can't stand behind them feel free to stand infront of them.

If you can't openly question your own military's actions, then you live in a military dictatorship. I've said I support the military, that doesn't mean i have to blindly accept everything the military does. I don't support this war in Iraq, and that has nothing to do with the military, accept when a few bad apples pop up like Abu Ghraib.
Once again, i'll say this- IMO, the shootings of the first group of people could have been justified if it was left at that. It was the killing of a wounded man and two people trying to help him that pushes this over the line. And you don't have to cry about every time you kill someone or a kid, but you shouldn't mock someone or make fun of them after you blow their head off. The ground troops showed care in trying to save the kids and get them to an american medical center, but the pilots were laughing and joking around that they shouldn't have brought kids to a war-zone, that is whats unacceptable.

And to edgeman- I'd rather be labeled a hippy than a redneck southerner. All the hippies I know are really successful and have homes on water, while all the rednecks i know live in the middle of florida with a shack on their parents property. Pot is better than "god, guns, and bullshit" any day of the week.