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  #16  
Old 11-27-2010, 09:51 PM
OscarMike OscarMike is offline
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Default Re: Auto trans stronger than manual...

The reason they rate the automatic for more than the manual is because not that many people know how to properly pull a load with a manual.
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  #17  
Old 11-28-2010, 01:52 AM
red_rider red_rider is offline
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Default Re: Auto trans stronger than manual...

In general, I've seen way to many auto trans fail at higher mileage compared to sticks, with it being harder to repair the auto as opposed to replacing the whole trans. Maybe the Ranger trans' are different or something, but given that you know how to be reasonable with the clutch, I don't see a whole lot to go wrong with a manual in higher mileage (it's not like you're going to break a gear in normal driving).

Just my take on it though. I can't really comment on the different tow ratings other that what others have already said.
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  #18  
Old 11-28-2010, 02:40 AM
pooleo pooleo is offline
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Default Re: Auto trans stronger than manual...

I perfer manual over auto any day. Autos just don't have the longevity of a manual. To much to risk with an auto. Heat tears em up. When my 5r55e went out it was close to 3k to repair. I converted over to manaul for 1,700.

Nowadays with all these electronic autos to many things can fail. Run bigger tires than stock it starts messing up shift points, DTRS going bad, etc.

If two rangers pulled there maxium payload on a trailer around until one failed (1 auto, 1 manual) the auto would fail first. IMO
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  #19  
Old 11-28-2010, 03:17 AM
TerrenceStuart TerrenceStuart is offline
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Default Re: Auto trans stronger than manual...

Quote:
Originally Posted by OscarMike View Post
The reason they rate the automatic for more than the manual is because not that many people know how to properly pull a load with a manual.
my thoughts exactly. I can see some guy pulling a 5000lb load and "speed shifting" just to get up to highway speeds.
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  #20  
Old 11-28-2010, 05:53 AM
drppdyllwrngr drppdyllwrngr is offline
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Default Re: Auto trans stronger than manual...

Quote:
Originally Posted by red_rider View Post
I don't see a whole lot to go wrong with a manual in higher mileage (it's not like you're going to break a gear in normal driving).
my manual went out at 150k. no warning at all. i was slowing down coming in a town. was doing 35 in 5th. downshifted to 3rd and that was it. truck hopped twice (i thought rear end locked up) and that was it. third gear was completely trashed. reman later and it's going fine.
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  #21  
Old 11-28-2010, 06:20 AM
ranger pete ranger pete is offline
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Default Re: Auto trans stronger than manual...

torque converters do not multiply torque, to the best of my knowledge. torque multiplication is the transmission's job. torque converters throw away input torque in the form of heat as well. infact, they throw away a lot more heat than a manual does. when was the last time you saw a cooler on a manual tranny. a torque converter is simply a device which allows the transfer of torque from a spinning shaft (crankshaft) to a non spinning shaft (transmission I/P).

you are correct about launching, but, this is largely a matter of the driver's abilities. someone who knows how to properly operate a clutch and has the sense to not put himself in a position of having to start from a stop on an uphill grade will likely be able to tow heavy loads better using stock equipment, particularly if it involves long pulls which would cause a stock slushbox to have a melt down.

my guess is that ford rates capabilities for the average shmuck who might not have the best clutchin' and shiftin' talents.

----------

after thinking about it for a bit, a TC may indeed multiply torque. but it does so with horrible inefficiency. torque multiplication is the job of the tranny. kinda wish the ranger's 5 speed was set up like the 4 speed in my old f-150. pretty much a 3 speed plus a granny gear that could pull pretty much anything.....up to about 4 mph. Such a setup would make it a lot easier to tow ridiculous loads with a ranger.
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  #22  
Old 11-28-2010, 09:00 AM
rwenzing rwenzing is offline
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Default Re: Auto trans stronger than manual...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ranger pete View Post
torque converters do not multiply torque, to the best of my knowledge. torque multiplication is the transmission's job. torque converters throw away input torque in the form of heat as well. infact, they throw away a lot more heat than a manual does. when was the last time you saw a cooler on a manual tranny. a torque converter is simply a device which allows the transfer of torque from a spinning shaft (crankshaft) to a non spinning shaft (transmission I/P).
Torque converters do indeed multiply torque. The multiplication is greatest when engine speed and input shaft speed are very different - exactly what happens when launching from rest at WOT. That's why a 3.0L automatic Ranger can get away with a 2.47:! low gear where a similar truck with a manual needs a 3.72:1.

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/auto-p...converter4.htm



Quote:
Originally Posted by OscarMike View Post
The reason they rate the automatic for more than the manual is because not that many people know how to properly pull a load with a manual.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ranger pete View Post
you are correct about launching, but, this is largely a matter of the driver's abilities.
Ford builds vehicles for the real world and has established hundreds of acceptance criteria that a vehicle must pass before it will be sold. We all know that a manufacturer like Ford does not always get it right but these tests are based on 100+ years of corporate experience. They definitely are not done simply because someone thought it would be a good exercise.

Obviously, for towing, a vehicle must have the required engine power, braking ability, stability, cooling capacity, tire rating, etc., etc. All of these are nearly identical for otherwise similarly equipped Rangers yet the automatic's Gross Combined Weight Rating is much higher than the manual.

One important acceptance test is a launch from rest with a fully loaded trailer on a 20% test hill. A manual loaded to its lower GCWR has one hell of a time getting moving where an automatic at its higher GCWR just motors slowly away at WOT. The trailer rating limitation is established using this test and if a vehicle cannot do it, then either the rating is lowered or components must be changed to make it do it.

Using this test procedure, a manual Ranger would need an extreme granny gear to match the GCWR of a similar automatic Ranger.

This is definitely not a question of driver ability - the people who perform the final acceptance tests do this same type of work all day long on a variety of cars and trucks.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I prefer a manual transmission and have towed much more than the factory GCWR with a manual Ranger on relatively level ground. Still, I recognize that the automatic has a tremendous advantage during launch, especially in any type of uphill situation.
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Last edited by rwenzing; 11-28-2010 at 10:04 AM. Reason: typo
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  #23  
Old 11-28-2010, 10:16 AM
pooleo pooleo is offline
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Default Re: Auto trans stronger than manual...

[QUOTE=drppdyllwrngr;253490]my manual went out at 150k. no warning at all.QUOTE]

9 times out of 10 manuals fail because they have original ATF. What is the FORD recommended ATF change for auto? like 60k or so?

You run ATF 150k in the manuals and never change it something is going to fail.

My plow truck has 261k on it, I dumpped the AFT about 1k ago. That shit came out like smelling/looking like burnt water.

I dont know if you had changed yours out or not, but that is why manuals normally fail under everyday use. ATF offers not protection to the gears.

My dads 92 f150 has the m5od-r2 basically the same as the r1 just bigger. Now that come from the factory with gear oil in it. Wonder why...?
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  #24  
Old 11-28-2010, 10:22 AM
mazdab2300 mazdab2300 is offline
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Default Re: Auto trans stronger than manual...

what does art mean. and my manual was just fine untilo about a month ago and now it doesnt want to go into 1st sometimes. and it fights me every time when i try to get it into reverse. the clutch fluid is fine.
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  #25  
Old 11-28-2010, 10:46 AM
drppdyllwrngr drppdyllwrngr is offline
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Default Re: Auto trans stronger than manual...

[quote=pooleo8;253553]
Quote:
Originally Posted by drppdyllwrngr View Post
my manual went out at 150k. no warning at all.QUOTE]

9 times out of 10 manuals fail because they have original ATF. What is the FORD recommended ATF change for auto? like 60k or so?

You run ATF 150k in the manuals and never change it something is going to fail.

My plow truck has 261k on it, I dumpped the AFT about 1k ago. That shit came out like smelling/looking like burnt water.

I dont know if you had changed yours out or not, but that is why manuals normally fail under everyday use. ATF offers not protection to the gears.

My dads 92 f150 has the m5od-r2 basically the same as the r1 just bigger. Now that come from the factory with gear oil in it. Wonder why...?
i had just had a clutch job done, and i think the shop put gear oil in mine. but i have no proof. the atf had been changed prior to the clutch.
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  #26  
Old 11-28-2010, 11:15 AM
red_rider red_rider is offline
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Default Re: Auto trans stronger than manual...

Quote:
Originally Posted by drppdyllwrngr View Post
my manual went out at 150k. no warning at all. i was slowing down coming in a town. was doing 35 in 5th. downshifted to 3rd and that was it. truck hopped twice (i thought rear end locked up) and that was it. third gear was completely trashed. reman later and it's going fine.
Interesting, I really haven't heard of gears just breaking like that (except maybe fluid issues like others have said, but I'm not saying that was necessarily your problem either). How was the truck driven/shifted during its life up to that point? I'd still think that there would be less to go wrong with it than an auto and easier to work on than an auto.
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  #27  
Old 11-28-2010, 11:25 AM
terryduanemiller terryduanemiller is offline
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Default Re: Auto trans stronger than manual...

you do have to change the manuals ATF recommended every 60K, and clean the magnetic plug.. not many ppl do this, hence failure.. I change mine every 30k..
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  #28  
Old 11-28-2010, 11:40 AM
drppdyllwrngr drppdyllwrngr is offline
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Default Re: Auto trans stronger than manual...

Quote:
Originally Posted by red_rider View Post
Interesting, I really haven't heard of gears just breaking like that (except maybe fluid issues like others have said, but I'm not saying that was necessarily your problem either). How was the truck driven/shifted during its life up to that point? I'd still think that there would be less to go wrong with it than an auto and easier to work on than an auto.
i got it with 98k on it. the guy was older and drove it back and forth to work. i wasn't the easiest on it, but i don't feel i abuse it either. i had done a little towing, a good mix of highway/city driving.
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  #29  
Old 11-28-2010, 01:29 PM
rwenzing rwenzing is offline
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Default Re: Auto trans stronger than manual...

Another problem area with the Mazda R1 and R2 is the 3 rubber plugs in the back of the shift rail bores. These plugs harden over time, loosen and eventually may fall out. Obviously, this is asking for dirt in and fluid out and that is the cause of many Mazda failures.

To prevent this, the rubber plugs can be changed every few years. Better yet, steel cup plugs can be driven in place of the originals. If the cover is removed, it is also possible to tap for threaded NPT pipe plugs.

Here are the 3 stock rubber plugs under the back of the shift tower. They are black rubber but the dirt in this photo makes them look lighter.

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  #30  
Old 11-28-2010, 04:56 PM
rwenzing rwenzing is offline
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Default Re: Auto trans stronger than manual...

Quote:
Originally Posted by mazdab2300 View Post
what does art mean. and my manual was just fine untilo about a month ago and now it doesnt want to go into 1st sometimes. and it fights me every time when i try to get it into reverse. the clutch fluid is fine.
These symptoms usually means that the slave cyllinder is failing. If so, it requires removal of the transmission to replace. When driven in this condition, the slave leaks brake fluid all over the disc which can cause further damage.
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