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  #16  
Old 01-02-2017, 11:19 AM
guell guell is online now
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Originally Posted by Scottydog View Post

did you even read my post? I said that a 4x4 with a locker would be more capable than 2wd with locker. The point I was making is that 4x4 is not the be-all-end-all of off roading.
I did, it was mostly nonsense when you claim a 2wd with a locker is better offroad
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  #17  
Old 01-02-2017, 11:27 AM
camodown camodown is offline
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Originally Posted by Scottydog View Post
did you even read my post? I said that a 4x4 with a locker would be more capable than 2wd with locker. The point I was making is that 4x4 is not the be-all-end-all of off roading.
It really is this simple.

2wd < locked 2wd < 4wd < locked 4wd.

It is science.
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  #18  
Old 01-02-2017, 01:25 PM
Scottydog Scottydog is online now
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Default Re: 4x4 vs 2wd

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Originally Posted by camodown View Post
Even still. I've wheeled with guys that were locked 2wd's. I've also had to stop, back up and pull them through obstacles so they weren't sitting their stuck on the trail between 2 small hills. But what do I know, the guy that doesn't know what size his wheels are probably knows more than me.
oh look, another guy who didn't even read my post but wants to criticize my advice because he's a bigshot wheeler. Let me repeat myself for you; a 4x4 with a locker will always be more capable than a 2wd with a locker. However a 4x4 with open diff will not get anywhere near the places a 2wd with locker can go. Horses for courses. Agreed?

Not that I have to justify myself here, but me not knowing what size wheels my truck had was more to do with the fact that I live on the 5th floor of an apartment building and it was cold outside, and just wanted to browse my tire options without having to go all the way down to the lot. That doesn't mean I'm ignorant of off roading. The first car I ever drove was a series 3 land rover. So don't make assumptions about people you know nothing about, especially if you're not going to even do them the courtesy of hearing them out.

Like I said, it all depends on what you want to do with it. This guy said light off road and some snow, not rock crawling the grand canyon. I've also seen ****y 4x4 guys like you get stuck and get pulled out by a 2wd, the bigger the ego the worse it bruises.

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Originally Posted by camodown View Post
It really is this simple.

2wd < locked 2wd < 4wd < locked 4wd.

It is science.
no it isn't "science".

2wd < 4wd < locked 2wd < locked 4wd. Open diff 4wd ain't worth shit on a really loose surface. Do you even have a diff lock?

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Quote:
Originally Posted by guell View Post
I did, it was mostly nonsense when you claim a 2wd with a locker is better offroad
a diff lock is always better than an open diff off road. Those are just facts.
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  #19  
Old 01-02-2017, 01:36 PM
Wolperdinger Wolperdinger is offline
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Default Re: 4x4 vs 2wd

...or just get the 4X4 and have no regrets.
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  #20  
Old 01-02-2017, 01:46 PM
camodown camodown is offline
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Originally Posted by Scottydog View Post
oh look, another guy who didn't even read my post but wants to criticize my advice because he's a bigshot wheeler. Let me repeat myself for you; a 4x4 with a locker will always be more capable than a 2wd with a locker. However a 4x4 with open diff will not get anywhere near the places a 2wd with locker can go. Horses for courses. Agreed?
I read your post and you are wrong. I've owned and wheeled with locked 2wd's. Real world experience. What actual experience do you have that isn't a story your brothers best friends cousin told you about?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottydog View Post
Not that I have to justify myself here, but me not knowing what size wheels my truck had was more to do with the fact that I live on the 5th floor of an apartment building and it was cold outside, and just wanted to browse my tire options without having to go all the way down to the lot.
Lol. Ok

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottydog View Post
I've also seen ****y 4x4 guys like you get stuck and get pulled out by a 2wd, the bigger the ego the worse it bruises.
And? People get stuck all the time in every kind of vehicle. I pulled out plenty of 4x4 people when I had a 2wd ranger. Also doesn't mean we were traveling down the same path. Point invalid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottydog View Post
Do you even have a diff lock?
Which one would you like to know about from my list of vehicles?
Tundra - 2wd rear locker
Ranger 4x4 - front locker
Power Wagon - front and rear locker
Super Duty 4x4 - rear locker
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  #21  
Old 01-02-2017, 02:01 PM
guell guell is online now
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Originally Posted by camodown View Post

I read your post and you are wrong. I've owned and wheeled with locked 2wd's. Real world experience. What actual experience do you have that isn't a story your brothers best friends cousin told you about?

Lol. Ok

And? People get stuck all the time in every kind of vehicle. I pulled out plenty of 4x4 people when I had a 2wd ranger. Also doesn't mean we were traveling down the same path. Point invalid.

Which one would you like to know about from my list of vehicles?
Tundra - 2wd rear locker
Ranger 4x4 - front locker
Power Wagon - front and rear locker
Super Duty 4x4 - rear locker
What locker did you have in the tundra?

I will also take 4wd over a locked 2wd truck as most have some sort of LSD in the rear.

So like Casey said

2wd<2wd locked<4wd<4wd locked
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Last edited by guell; 01-02-2017 at 02:08 PM.
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  #22  
Old 01-02-2017, 02:22 PM
camodown camodown is offline
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Originally Posted by guell View Post
What locker did you have in the tundra? I will also take 4wd over a locked 2wd truck as most have some sort of LSD in the rear. So like Casey said 2wd<2wd locked<4wd<4wd locked
ARB

No, no, no, don't bring limited slips into this, 4x4 can only come in open differentials. That's the rules.
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  #23  
Old 01-02-2017, 02:22 PM
aroundincircles aroundincircles is offline
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Default Re: 4x4 vs 2wd

Can we stop the pissing contest?

anyways, I agree with this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by guell View Post
2wd<2wd locked<4wd<4wd locked
I had a colrado 2wd open rear. I put a g80 auto locker into it (NOT an LSD), and it was an improvement, but it was nothing to even my shitty awd jeep patriot (Freedom drive II) I had after that, because it had the electronics to back up the awd. I sold it and got my XJ cherokee, and the XJ is far and away better than all of the above, and it is open/open. I plan on locking it, but way down the road. I'll probably do an engine swap first.

We also cannot forget: Tires make a HUGE difference. a good set of off road tires makes all the difference in the world. Recently did a trip in my XJ that I've done many times previously with mild A/T 31" tires. I would spend about 1/3rd of the trip with my 4wd engaged. I recently put on a set of M/T tires, and ran the trail in the rain/mud, I only engaged 4wd once, for a short climb up a rock face that had water running down it, and it was probably unnecessary.

I did crazy stuff in my patriot that guys in XJ's, KJ's, and KK's, WJ's, and ZJ's were too afraid to do, and had to be left behind. I was never able to out pace a wrangler of any ilk. So driver skills, bravery, and experience makes a difference as well.

edit: forgot a part of what I was going to say...

its all about your use case. My colorado was 2wd, and I took it off road, and was ALWAYS annoyed at its limitations, hence installing the rear locker. When I bought my patriot, I needed a vehicle that could carry a couple of kids and their crap, and was CHEAP, patriot fit the bill, but I learned my lesson and bought the most off road capable option, the Freedom drive 2 package, because it had "low range" (lower gearing) BLD's, tow hooks, skid plates, etc. because I KNEW I was going to take it off road, and I had 30" tires on it before it was 3 weeks old. In trying to get out of debt, I sold the patriot, and later picked up my XJ, again I couldn't even look at a 2wd, because I knew what I was going to do with it. When I bought my B4000, once again, I knew I would not be happy with a 2wd, I simply do too much that would require 4wd at some point. and it would be my colorado all over again.


If you NEVER plan on going off road, city driving only, then a 2wd is probably your best bet, as you will have more buying options, spend less money, spend less for gas and insurance over the life of the vehicle. Proper tires, and some bags of sand in the back will get you through a snowy season just fine (again proper tires makes all the difference in the world).

but if you have aspirations of going places that others cannot go, well then get the 4x4, otherwise you'll spend a ton of time and money trying to get there, when you could have spent less to begin with.
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Last edited by aroundincircles; 01-02-2017 at 02:32 PM.
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  #24  
Old 01-02-2017, 02:25 PM
guell guell is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camodown View Post

ARB

No, no, no, don't bring limited slips into this, 4x4 can only come in open differentials. That's the rules.
What year and how much of a PITA was it to install? I wouldn't mind putting an arb locker in the tundra, although atrac is pretty awesome if you know how to use it
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  #25  
Old 01-02-2017, 02:31 PM
camodown camodown is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guell View Post
What year and how much of a PITA was it to install? I wouldn't mind putting an arb locker in the tundra, although atrac is pretty awesome if you know how to use it
2010. I didn't put it in but I don't think they are that difficult if you have the right knowledge to make sure backlash and whatnot are set correctly. Then just have to drill and tap a hole for the airline.
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  #26  
Old 01-02-2017, 04:01 PM
Jimmyspy Jimmyspy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottydog View Post
2wd < 4wd < locked 2wd < locked 4wd.

Open diff 4wd ain't worth shit on a really loose surface.
Not that this thread needs any more derailment, buuuut....

As someone that actually has, drives, and wheels a 4wd ranger that has open differentials front and rear, you're wrong.

While a locker vastly improves a 2wds capabilities, and let's it almost keep up with an open diff 4wd, I'd much rather have my two drive tires on different axles rather than both on the rear.
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  #27  
Old 01-02-2017, 05:37 PM
Scottydog Scottydog is online now
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Default Re: 4x4 vs 2wd

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmyspy View Post
Not that this thread needs any more derailment, buuuut....

As someone that actually has, drives, and wheels a 4wd ranger that has open differentials front and rear, you're wrong.

While a locker vastly improves a 2wds capabilities, and let's it almost keep up with an open diff 4wd, I'd much rather have my two drive tires on different axles rather than both on the rear.
I also own and drive an open diff 4x4 ranger. I've driven many types of vehicle off road, including full time center diff custom land rovers that make jeeps look like toys. What you're saying is valid but doesn't contradict or disprove any of what I've said.

Also a lsd 4x4 is a very different animal to an open diff 4x4. Fact is, rangers come with an open diff 4x4, so unless you add a diff lock or lsd, there are only 3 advantages a 4x4 ranger in stock form has over a 2wd with locker and lift.

1. Low range.
2. Weight over front wheels meaning better traction.
3. Power distributed over more wheels, meaning less power per wheel is required to move the vehicle.

Anyone who actually goes offroad or "wheeling" as the posers call it will tell you the following:

1. Good rubber and a suspension lift are way more important than 4x4 or lockers.
2. Off roading is 70% driver, 30% rig.
3. Every rig has limits.
4. The harder the trail you can take, the more screwed you are if you get stuck.

Sure a 2wd with locker engaged will not turn quite as well, but its not the impossible task you're describing either. It all depends on what you're doing and how its set up.

Yes of course its more sensible to buy a 4x4 if you can get one, but what if you can't? What if 2wd rangers are significantly cheaper and more plentiful? Under those circumstances, a 2wd with some mods will be more than adequate for what the op wants to do: light off road and occasional snow.
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  #28  
Old 01-02-2017, 06:00 PM
camodown camodown is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottydog View Post
Fact is, rangers come with an open diff 4x4
Wrong again. Majority of 4x4 Rangers had a LSD in the rear & it was an option for 2wd Rangers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottydog View Post
there are only 3 advantages a 4x4 ranger in stock form has over a 2wd with locker and lift. 1. Low range. 2. Weight over front wheels meaning better traction. 3. Power distributed over more wheels, meaning less power per wheel is required to move the vehicle.
Well those are 3 pretty important advantages and you are contradicting yourself.
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  #29  
Old 01-03-2017, 04:56 AM
guell guell is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottydog View Post

I also own and drive an open diff 4x4 ranger. I've driven many types of vehicle off road, including full time center diff custom land rovers that make jeeps look like toys. What you're saying is valid but doesn't contradict or disprove any of what I've said.

Also a lsd 4x4 is a very different animal to an open diff 4x4. Fact is, rangers come with an open diff 4x4, so unless you add a diff lock or lsd, there are only 3 advantages a 4x4 ranger in stock form has over a 2wd with locker and lift.

1. Low range.
2. Weight over front wheels meaning better traction.
3. Power distributed over more wheels, meaning less power per wheel is required to move the vehicle.

Anyone who actually goes offroad or "wheeling" as the posers call it will tell you the following:

1. Good rubber and a suspension lift are way more important than 4x4 or lockers.
2. Off roading is 70% driver, 30% rig.
3. Every rig has limits.
4. The harder the trail you can take, the more screwed you are if you get stuck.

Sure a 2wd with locker engaged will not turn quite as well, but its not the impossible task you're describing either. It all depends on what you're doing and how its set up.

Yes of course its more sensible to buy a 4x4 if you can get one, but what if you can't? What if 2wd rangers are significantly cheaper and more plentiful? Under those circumstances, a 2wd with some mods will be more than adequate for what the op wants to do: light off road and occasional snow.
There are plenty of jeeps that would shit all over your land rover, and I like land rovers. Stop giving out crappy advice. Most of the 4wd rangers had a lsd rear end. I'm sorry you bought an undesirable one. He never talked about some "impossible task" you refer to. Did you even read his thread?
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  #30  
Old 01-03-2017, 05:21 AM
mrmoerder mrmoerder is offline
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I agree alot with the above "70% driver 30% rig" with offroading. I own both a 2wd and 4x4 Ranger. I get them both in the dirt. The 4x4 works fine, never gotten stuck. But that 2wd is just plain fun to trail, because theres a much bigger chance youre getting stuck.
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