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  #16  
Old 10-12-2011, 02:13 PM
PaulBennett PaulBennett is offline
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Default Re: Battery dead after 4 to 5 day non use of truck

Lanoo, you should really start a new thread, hijacking this one with a similar problem generally gets you ignored.

Are you saying the current draw measured at the battery is .17 amps with key in Run position and .40 amps when key is out?

"radio is outof truck...Radio installed...radio inoperative" is quite confusing. How does the radio relate to this problem of the red/black wire at the ignition switch.

I'm looking at a wiring diagram while reading your post. I also can't make sense of (wire?) "from fused ignition to hot in start". Please explain what 'fused ignition' means as well as 'to hot in start'. The ignition switch has several positions called Off, Run, Start, and ACC. Are you referring to the wire connected to Start position.?. in which case the suspected short only happens when key is turned to start? Hope you understand how confusing this is to understand. I suggest you start a new thread and be a bit more descriptive.
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  #17  
Old 10-13-2011, 09:33 AM
Lanoo Lanoo is offline
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Default Re: Battery dead after 4 to 5 day non use of truck

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Originally Posted by PaulBennett View Post
Lanoo, you should really start a new thread, hijacking this one with a similar problem generally gets you ignored.

Are you saying the current draw measured at the battery is .17 amps with key in Run position and .40 amps when key is out?

"radio is outof truck...Radio installed...radio inoperative" is quite confusing. How does the radio relate to this problem of the red/black wire at the ignition switch.

I'm looking at a wiring diagram while reading your post. I also can't make sense of (wire?) "from fused ignition to hot in start". Please explain what 'fused ignition' means as well as 'to hot in start'. The ignition switch has several positions called Off, Run, Start, and ACC. Are you referring to the wire connected to Start position.?. in which case the suspected short only happens when key is turned to start? Hope you understand how confusing this is to understand. I suggest you start a new thread and be a bit more descriptive.
Just joined ,72- not computer literate .sorry not trying to highjack anything.
If you have a 2000 ranger radio electrical diagram (available online) There are 3 wires in the plug that goes into the radio that are electrical sources for the radio. 1. Yel/blk --hot in run from fused ignition source (i.e. key on). 2. Lt Grn/Vio --hot all times from power(Batt). 3 Red/Blk --from fused ignition source --according to the diagram ,should be hot only in start(i.e.key in start position), but it's .40 amps with key off and .17 amps with key on. Checked draw at battery .40 amps , unplugged radio and no drain. Wondering if anyone else has had and solved this problem. Fused ignition means simply a fuse in the hot wire(s)from the battery to the ignition switch. Been a mechanic for 50 years -assumed you guys might know something about radio electrical system problems that have happened to one of you --guess not -I'll find the problem then post the answer!
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  #18  
Old 10-13-2011, 02:50 PM
Lanoo Lanoo is offline
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Default Re: Battery dead after 4 to 5 day non use of truck

To those that have electrical drain that slowly runs the battery dead in a few days and you have checked all the fuses and alternator --there is a breaker-fuse box under the dash with 6 or 7 of those square fuses in it -it about inline with the accelerator pedal with a black cover. Take off the cover and feel to see if any fuse feels hot-(should be one for antitheft) that feels warm. With amp meter at the battery, pull one fuse at a time to see if the drain changes . If not remove the radio and unplug it --check the amp meter betcha it's there if the radio isn't working/ or is working. Check Blk/red wire at radio plug --there are 3 wires to the radio that bring electricity to the radio when the ignition switch is in different positions. Hope this helps! Radio electrical diagram is online.
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  #19  
Old 10-13-2011, 03:26 PM
FireRanger FireRanger is offline
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Default Re: Battery dead after 4 to 5 day non use of truck

Huh? Those are not fuses. Those are relays and flashers. It also makes no sense that there would be a wire hot in start to the radio, you must be reading something wrong.
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  #20  
Old 10-13-2011, 07:57 PM
1 SIK RANGER 1 SIK RANGER is offline
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Default Re: Battery dead after 4 to 5 day non use of truck

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Originally Posted by Hawkeye59 View Post
As you most likely saw in my other post I am suspecting alternator being an issue so I will have them change it out while they are under the hood.
If it were the alternator you would be having issues when you were driving it too much, not when it sits too long. Something is not turning off when the ignition is shut off.
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  #21  
Old 10-14-2011, 04:14 AM
Lanoo Lanoo is offline
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Default Re: Battery dead after 4 to 5 day non use of truck

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Originally Posted by FireRanger View Post
Huh? Those are not fuses. Those are relays and flashers. It also makes no sense that there would be a wire hot in start to the radio, you must be reading something wrong.
Look at the online wiring diagram for CD radio-2000 ranger --not reading anything wrong.Relays are just fuses that open when too hot --no flashers in that box under dash. Read "about relays".
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  #22  
Old 10-14-2011, 07:24 AM
FireRanger FireRanger is offline
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Default Re: Battery dead after 4 to 5 day non use of truck

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lanoo View Post
Look at the online wiring diagram for CD radio-2000 ranger --not reading anything wrong.Relays are just fuses that open when too hot --no flashers in that box under dash. Read "about relays".
He did not just go there. Sir, you're extremely confused and you do not know what you're talking about. I concede it does indeed show something going to hot-in-start, though I can't for the life of me figure out WHY that would ever be needed. I apologize saying you must be reading it wrong. Though as for the rest of your statement...

A relay is not a fuse that opens when too hot. I suggest YOU read "about relays". A relay is essentially remote controlled switch. The box under the dash contains flashers and relays. A device that opens when too hot is called a circuit breaker. A devices that opens when too hot and automatically closes when cooled off is called a self-reclosing circuit breaker. I suggest you read "about circuit breakers"
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Last edited by FireRanger; 10-14-2011 at 07:29 AM.
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  #23  
Old 10-14-2011, 06:52 PM
PaulBennett PaulBennett is offline
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Default Re: Battery dead after 4 to 5 day non use of truck

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lanoo View Post
Just joined ,72- not computer literate .sorry not trying to highjack anything.
If you have a 2000 ranger radio electrical diagram (available online) There are 3 wires in the plug that goes into the radio that are electrical sources for the radio. 1. Yel/blk --hot in run from fused ignition source (i.e. key on). 2. Lt Grn/Vio --hot all times from power(Batt). 3 Red/Blk --from fused ignition source --according to the diagram ,should be hot only in start(i.e.key in start position), but it's .40 amps with key off and .17 amps with key on. Checked draw at battery .40 amps , unplugged radio and no drain. Wondering if anyone else has had and solved this problem. Fused ignition means simply a fuse in the hot wire(s)from the battery to the ignition switch. Been a mechanic for 50 years -assumed you guys might know something about radio electrical system problems that have happened to one of you --guess not -I'll find the problem then post the answer!
Firstly, hijacking is replying to a thread someone else started for their problem and adding your problem to get answers rather than starting a new thread. It is frowned on because the two problems never turn out to be related and the OP (original poster) often gets short shifted. We understand you think a crowd of experts has formed but after reading some of the posts I'm almost embarrased to be here ...like the relay being a fuse thing. Ain't even close.

Back to your situation, many thanks for restating it clearly so even I can understand. One remaining point of confusion is that you unplugged the radio and the drain went away. Doesn't that make the radio the culprit rather than a wire elsewhere?

Modern radios require input from 2 power sources...switched ignition (so the radio goes off when you leave the car) and battery (to keep station presets alive). Many radios have an additional source from the gauge illumination circuit, to dim the radio lights when you dim the gauges.

Your red/blk wire is definately shown as going to the radio and comming from 'Start' - diagram below. It connects at fuse 21 to the smart junction box behind right side of dash and connects there to many power train and antitheft devices. So I'm back to the one big question...is it the radio or something else.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lanoo View Post
Mine has short in wire harness -the red/black from fused ignition to hot in start .It is .17 in run and .40 in Off --anyone got an idea where it shorted .
Your original post...but goes on to say leaving the radio totally out truely kills the strange power draw. Have you indeed tried to disconnect just that particular wire to the radio to learn if the radio still works and key out drain returns to zip. I've worked on car radios since 1948. I doubt Ford intended 'running down the battery' as an effective theft deterrent.

So please clear the confusion between "bad radio" and "I have a short"
I'm truly interested and dedicated to finding the answer to this battery drain problem.
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  #24  
Old 10-14-2011, 07:01 PM
FireRanger FireRanger is offline
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Default Re: Battery dead after 4 to 5 day non use of truck

Try just disconnecting the hot-in-start wire all together. I suspect it does nothing of any use to begin with.
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  #25  
Old 10-15-2011, 12:25 AM
Lanoo Lanoo is offline
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Default Re: Battery dead after 4 to 5 day non use of truck

If the hot in start wire is hot at the fuse box with key off -Then it seems that it should NOT be if, as stated, it is hot in start key position only-therefore there is a problem before the fuse box , maybe at the ignition switch. What happened ,it being hot all the time shorted out the radio and the short was draining the battery. The radio is ruined. Tested the hot in start wire at the radio plug again and it's .39 all the time in any key position. About relays ,they are magnetic switches when current is applied but sometimes get too hot and switch off (instead of blowing a fuse)Sometimes they weld and the circuit stays closed -then you have a battery drain -So i call them (relay) fuses. Evidently all other hot circuits to radio in other key positions do not work when the key is in start position and would cause loss of all settings -therefore the need for hot in start wire. Circuit breakers are switches for overloads ,just like in a house. I'll check out other "hot"wires in start key position tomorrow and reply.
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  #26  
Old 10-15-2011, 03:01 AM
FireRanger FireRanger is offline
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Default Re: Battery dead after 4 to 5 day non use of truck

Why did you start a thread asking questions if you aren't going to listen to what anyone tells you. Your concept of how relays and switches work is completely in another dimension of reality and you're not making sense on anything else. Good luck fixing it yourself on your own without our help.
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  #27  
Old 10-15-2011, 03:14 PM
PaulBennett PaulBennett is offline
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Default Re: Battery dead after 4 to 5 day non use of truck

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lanoo View Post
If the hot in start wire is hot at the fuse box with key off -Then it seems that it should NOT be if, as stated, it is hot in start key position only-therefore there is a problem before the fuse box , maybe at the ignition switch. What happened ,it being hot all the time shorted out the radio and the short was draining the battery. The radio is ruined. Tested the hot in start wire at the radio plug again and it's .39 all the time in any key position. About relays ,they are magnetic switches when current is applied but sometimes get too hot and switch off (instead of blowing a fuse)Sometimes they weld and the circuit stays closed -then you have a battery drain -So i call them (relay) fuses. Evidently all other hot circuits to radio in other key positions do not work when the key is in start position and would cause loss of all settings -therefore the need for hot in start wire. Circuit breakers are switches for overloads ,just like in a house. I'll check out other "hot"wires in start key position tomorrow and reply.
Sir, you may be an excellent well seasoned mechanic but your offbeat electrical knowledge is leading you astray.

1) If there is voltage at 'hot in start' with key out, the proper procedure is to remove fuse 21 (diagram provided above) and use a trouble light to learn which side(s) of the fuse socket has voltage. Do this with key out and with key at start position. Check this, it is very important. You can't go any farther without this information. The voltage may be coming from the ignition switch or from one of the many components it is meant to supply. You claim the radio plug reads .39 (volts? how are you reading .39? at the plug). Please when you write numbers the units must follow, V A uA mV ohms etc. But here you must start looking for voltage using a 12v troubelight. Forget the radio plug and locate the fuse feeding it.

2) I've verified the normal operation and reason for that particular radio circuit in Ford radios - the radio contains a diode which internally bridges the 'hot in start' to the 'hot in run' voltage input so the radio music doesn't go off when restarting a stalled ingine. This feature is only available on Ford supplied radios. I.e. aftermarket radios do not have that power input and it isn't used in aftermarket radio harnessses. Power for radio presets does NOT come through this 'hot in start' circuit or anywhere near it.

3) A shorted circuit anywhere in the truck CANNOT damage the radio. If the radio has failed, it was an internal failure, not due to any shorted peripheral truck electrical circuits or wires. A failed alternator, however, which can produce over 15v can damage any number of things, normally the ECU goes first but the radio can fail from overvoltage. While not a 'short', I'm assuming from your new-science relay defination that perhaps you don't know the definition of a 'short' either so I'm stretching to support your theory that the dog ate my radio. No insult intended, you've taught me to think outside the box.

4) You still haven't answered the big question relating to battery drain, does removal of the radio allow everything else electrical in the truck to be normal? ( I still think your alternator is bad )

5) You claim to be younger than me and less computer literate, but I get the feeling you are just pulling our leg on this. I have others requesting my help researching their difficulties and would like to go forward here or drop this completely. You asked for our help but instead of answering any of my troubleshooting questions you only put forth theories. ??
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  #28  
Old 10-15-2011, 04:09 PM
Lanoo Lanoo is offline
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Default Re: Battery dead after 4 to 5 day non use of truck

I didn't claim anything about being younger than you sir .I'm 72 and I dont pull anyone's leg .You are mistaken about what I'm doing checking it out . I was a repairman at GM for 20 years and know how to check out wiring problems. It's fuse 28 on a 2000 Ranger ,not 21 --get the right diagram. Look at the previous post -i did answer the question --""unplugged the radio and everything is normal"" . The alternator is OK .I have the equipment to check it with -quit reading into my post what's not there and read each line carefully instead of skip reading. You may be a so-called expert on radios but you can't analyse properly and are rude in communication -- get a grip and some respect Sir! If the "hot in run" wire is hot all the time at the radio ,it will damage the radio eventually --that's simply what happened! Don't think so --hook up .4 amps to the *hot in run* wire to your radio and let it stay on 24/7 and see what happens.Burns up the diode and shorts out.
The .39 *amps* is at the "hot in run wire" at the radio *plug* in any key position or with the key out -- got it?? So it's shorted somewhere before that and before the fuse. (which I assumed you know I how to check!). Your air of superiority sucks; learn to be a little kinder Sir --it goes a long way!
We're done!
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  #29  
Old 10-15-2011, 05:28 PM
FireRanger FireRanger is offline
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Actually he's right about everything he said and you continue to make no sense. Clearly you have no concept anything you're talking about. And those trying to correct your non-sense and help you are met with resistance and backtalk. So go blow it up yourself. You obviously have everything in order according to you and do not need our help.

[Posted with my Android mobile device using Tapatalk Pro]
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  #30  
Old 10-15-2011, 08:00 PM
PaulBennett PaulBennett is offline
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Default Re: Battery dead after 4 to 5 day non use of truck

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lanoo View Post
I didn't claim anything about being younger than you sir .I'm 72
What I said - you're claiming to be younger than me. But 'why' I find curious. Beginning to think wisdom peaks at 40 or 50 and you got me there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lanoo View Post
It's fuse 28 on a 2000 Ranger ,not 21 --get the right diagram.
I don't have the s/n of your truck so used the generic year 2000 diagram which doesn't change anything, it's clearly the same fuse

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lanoo View Post
Look at the previous post -i did answer the question --""unplugged the radio and everything is normal""
Then why are we still here? (because I'm still curious about the shorted wire)(or was it the radio which drained the battery)(danged I already forgot)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lanoo View Post
You may be a so-called expert on radios but you can't analyse properly and are rude in communication -- get a grip and some respect Sir!
Gosh, I didn't mean to. You should see what I deleted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lanoo View Post
If the "hot in run" wire is hot all the time at the radio ,it will damage the radio eventually --that's simply what happened!
Leave the tv on it also will eventually break too. But you started out asking where the short was in your wiring...that's where I'm totally fogged.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lanoo View Post
...hook up .4 amps to the *hot in run* wire to your radio and let it stay on 24/7 and see what happens.Burns up the diode and shorts out.
Wrong - no way on God's green earth, nada, niet. Defying gravity is easier.

Firstly one cannot "hook up amps" to anything. One can provide voltage but not amps, but that short you insist upon kill all voltage before it got to the radio. Now a diode is burnt up, why didn't the fuse blow? Cause it don't work that way.

The radio simply split. As a kid before becomming an engineer, I made lots of money fixing radios including car radios with vibrators no less. Remember those? Components go bad or wear out and they cease to function. Diodes too, btw, have you replaced your burnt up diode and reinstated proper radio operation? Good for you. (see I'm nice)(I got my grip)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lanoo View Post
The .39 *amps* is at the "hot in run wire" at the radio *plug* in any key position or with the key out -- got it??
No. What test equipment are you using to learn about .39 amps AT THE RADIO PLUG (with radio unplugged no less) I'm trying to understand, I really am but my EE degree didn't prepare me for this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lanoo View Post
So it's shorted somewhere before that and before the fuse. (which I assumed you know I how to check!).
I do, I do. But as you claim there was a shorted wire prior to the fuse, so there will be NO voltage, hence NO current flowing whatsoever at that point...as it was SHORTED already to ground. That's the definition of a short and one uses fuses, to prevent shorts from causing fires. But not fuse blew as you checked them. The real reason I thing you're pulling out leg is because the starter solenoid is connected to the 'hot in start' point and the starter would be grinding away if there was voltage there with the key out !!

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Originally Posted by Lanoo View Post
Your air of superiority sucks;
Thanks for the compliment, now I know I'm good at something...air.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lanoo View Post
learn to be a little kinder Sir --it goes a long way!
We're done!
Me too
And -I- have a communications problem. Are you ready...here comes the rude...maybe it's a Texas thing.

Sorry about grammaticals, I'm too worn out to proofread my rude reply.
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