Starting problem.

[SilverGryphon]

First off, I'm new to the forums here! Hello everyone!

A little background on my experience (and lack there of) I know very little when it comes to figuring out whats wrong with my car/truck. I never had anyone growing up to teach me anything beyond how to check the oil and tire pressure.

So here is my problem. I have an '89 Ranger, 6 Cylinder with factory towing package (according to PO). My problem started about a month ago, in the mornings after work about 2-3 times a week I'd go to start my truck, and it'd stall after about 5-10 seconds. Further attempts to start it would result in cranking, but no starting unless I applied a little bit of pressure to the accelerator to get, and keep the engine running. For abotu 5 minutes after that I'd have to continue to keep slight pressure on the accelerator while stopped or slowed to keep from stalling. It would only happen a few times a week, and sometimes would be 5-7 days between this happening.

Now, Saturday I went to head out and my truck wouldn't start at all. I'd get a click from the solenoid on the passenger side side, but no turning at all from the engine. I replaced the battery first (sticker on it said manufactured 94!) but no luck getting it started. My neighbor came by, and crawled under the truck and tapped on the starter with a hammer, and that got the truck to start. While replacing the original battery back in, I found the insulation on the neg cable had split and the copper wiring inside was blue. Truck started just fine on original battery after the tapping on the starter (with original battery) after this, but I noticed tonight coming into work that while going slow, or stopped at a red light, the RPM would drop to around 500 then the truck would stall out. Same way it had been doing after the bad starts before, but even after running for a while it was doing it as well.

So now I'm not sure which way to go just yet. I know I need to get the battery cable replaced, but I have no clue how to do it or what I need. I'm not sure if the starting problem, and stalling problem are related or not. I'd like to try to fix the problem myself as cheaply as possible as money is kinda tight with my wife not working now.

Any advice/suggestion is greatly appreciated!

[SilverGryphon]

Well I have an update. My truck started fine yesterday morning after work, got to the store to pick up a few groceries and it wouldn't start again. This time I could see the dash lights fading slowly. I tried to change out my battery in the parking lot, and couldn't get the neg cable on, and ended up losing the nut to the pos cable. Also the neg cable was coming apart in my hand.

Ended up walking 3 miles home with my groceries, and paying $89 to get my truck towed home. But, now its home I'm going to try to pull the cables out and the starter, and head over to O'reillys to get new cables and have the starter checked.

Edit: Should I try to pull the alternator out as well and have it checked?

[zekew64]

First off, you need to replace the positive wiring harness, not the negative battery cable. Check out this post I wrote to help someone with the same problem you have:

Sounds like you had the same problem I had with my '92.

First, you need three wires, with a wire crimper for the smallest. Also, you'll need to get a marine terminal to put the new wires on.

One wire is a 4 ga. wire--this runs from the battery to the starter. The next cable you'll need is a 6 ga. cable--go to Wal-Mart and grab a Lawn & Garden cable. Lastly, you'll need enough 10 ga. wire to go from the starter solenoid (the solenoid on the starter itself) up to the starter relay on the passenger fenderwall. Also, for the 10 ga. wire, you'll need to install and crimp two ring ends. One size needs to be smaller than the other, as the starter solenoid connection is smaller than the starter relay connection is.

Wal-Mart sells most, if not all, the materials for this job, save maybe the marine terminal. Speaking of the marine terminal, you want a terminal that has a threaded section directly behind the battery clamp. This is so you can attach the 4 ga. and 6 ga. cables without modifying them. Also, I'd recommend you to get a couple of washers to fit, to put in between the cables themselves.

It would, once finished, look like this, looking at it from a side view:

-regular hex nut (I don't trust wing nuts to hold that much)
-lock washer
-6 ga. cable (battery to starter relay on fenderwall)
-washer
-4 ga. cable (battery to starter solenoid)
-washer
-marine terminal

Again, I've had this problem myself. I went to a Ford dealership, and found out that they don't make the positive cable harness once a vehicle is 10 years old--they discontinue the part. What that means for you is that you have to make the part yourself, or find someone to do it for you.

Hope this helps.

By the way, your alternator should not have to be pulled; however, if you think you might have problems with it, pull and have it tested. Also, I would replace the original battery with a new one--your posts are probably corroded, and if you seen any blue or white around them, that means you have corrosion that can't be corrected.

[SilverGryphon]

Yeah, I was planning on replacing the pos cable at the same time. The neg cable definitely needs replaced as its falling apart.

Currently the cables are set up like this:

Pos Terminal - 1 Cable to Solenoid? on passenger fender wall.

Neg Terminal - 3 Cables: 1 to front frame ground, 1 down below the block to I believe the starter, and 1 connecting to what looks to be a fuse, then into the same solenoid on the passenger fender wall as the pos cable.

One of my co-workers was who suggested to me about having the alternator checked, as it may have been put under strain keeping things going.

I haven't had a chance to get out and pull the cables yet, commuting via bus gives me about 2-3 hours in the afternoon when I wake up to work on the truck, and last two days I've woken up to it raining. I also need to ask one of my neighbors if they have a floor jack and some jack stands I can borrow to get up underneath to the starter. He wasn't home today when I got up.

[zekew64]

You have one cable from the battery to the fenderwall. The second cable goes from the battery to the starter solenoid. Lastly, you have a small wire--about 10 or 12 ga.--that goes from the small pole on the starter solenoid to the fenderwall.

You have no negative cable going to the starter, as the starter is itself grounded through the fasteners to the engine block.

The negative cable does attach to the other side of the fenderwall solenoid. However, the other cable--the one that splits off the battery terminal--goes to the firewall or to a seperate ground.

The reason why your truck kept stalling out is the alternator output was basically being bled out by bad wires. Because of that, there wasn't enough voltage to keep the truck running due to not enough primary (read: 12V) voltage being transformed into secondary voltage. As for testing your alternator, fix the actual wires--the positive and negative battery cables--first, and get a DVOM to check your alternator output. Basically, with a DVOM, connect up the red lead to the positive terminal and the black lead to the negative terminal. Put the scale on volts-DC. You should have a reading of between 13 and 15 volts with the engine running, even at idle. With the engine off, you should have a battery reading of at least 12.6 volts (this is enough to start your truck, by the way). As to your alternator being put under strain, as long as the regulator is still good, it will still charge after the wiring itself is fixed.

As for testing your starter, look and see if the wiring connections are corroded or not--corrosion will look like either a blue or white powder covering the connections on the solenoid. If you don't have corrosion on the solenoid, then no, you should not have to test the starter. If you do, use some baking soda and water on the corrosion, and use a wire brush to clean up the connections. Either that, or go to Wal-Mart and get some battery post cleaner and clean up the connections on the starter solenoid. If, after all that, you cannot get the connections clean, then you will have to replace the starter, as the solenoid and starter are made and sold as a complete assembly. You no longer can buy just the solenoid.

[SilverGryphon]

Yeah not sure why I thought the one ground wire went from the battery negative to the starter.

I got it pulled out today, the long cable ran down and was fastened to a frame piece, then continued on to bolt just above the oil pan. Man it was filthy down there, I had to scrape stuff off the bolt head just to get a socket on it.

Tomorrow I'm heading in after work to see about getting the parts I need to replace the cables. Not sure how to do the connection to starter solenoid? I couldn't tell where it went, once I was disconnecting things I saw it didn't go the the solenoid as I thought, but goes on into the wire harness and out of sight. Took me me a few minutes to realize I wasn't squeezing in the right area to get the connector apart.

[SilverGryphon]

Ok, so new cable got in, started installing it and... its about a foot, maybe foot and a half too short, and the bolt hold in the bracket mid-cable was too small. So I ended up connecting the end to the frame where the middle bracket was suppose to be. I went back looking for another cable to finish the connection to the block, and couldn't find one with a big enough end to fit the bolt to the block.

So, my next question is, the original cable was 4 gauge, will a 10 gauge cable be enough for grounding the block?

[SilverGryphon]

Problem solved. Found another cable with a big enough lug on it and finished the ground connection from engine to chassis. My truck lives again!

[zekew64]

Cool beans!

[SilverGryphon]

Now on to my next project, to figure out why it idles rough in gear after warming up, and occasionally dying on me when stopped (like at a traffic light or when getting ready to go into reverse.).

[SilverGryphon]

So apparently the cables weren't the problem. Went out yesterday to head into town and no start.

Now I'm getting no click when I turn the key. I crawled underneath and tapped the starter with a hammer while my wife tried starting it, nothing.

I shorted the fenderwall solenoid/relay ?? with a screwdriver and got it to start once. I'm guessing thats where my problem is now?

[SilverGryphon]

Update: Had to short the fenderwall solenoid to get it running to get to work tonight. I had to stop part way to work to drop off a movie rental, and the truck started up normally without me having to short it again. I'm planning on getting a new solenoid tomorrow.