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  #16  
Old 02-21-2013, 10:03 PM
02RangerFX4 02RangerFX4 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thatranger View Post
Update:

So I decided to just do it tonight & check it with a flash light, under the tranny is some kind of oil type of liquid along the bottom of the tranny, that appears it might be coming from between where the engine & tranny is mated however this oil stuff is coated by what I can best describe is black dirt that I guess cam from the roads. Thinking it could be brake fluid I went ahead and used a tool to remove the res cap, and surprisingly its full and looks like normal golden brake fluid, of course with some black specs in it. Confused to where that oil stuff came front I went ahead & checked my engine oil (2800miles on it) and the engine oil was right on the dot of full, with a nice full golden color, looks like brand new oil. (Lol, but then again I already knew my engine was perfect, and it doesn't burn a drop of oil & barely ever turns a little bit brown.)

Anyways, it can't be brake fluid on the tranny, nor it is leaking tranny fluid. Cant be atf fluid because its not red/brown/black. Plus when I drained the atf fluid yesturday, it gave up a little under 3liters of fluid.

My dad and brother thinks its just the shitty autozone clutch in it going bad. Its about 2years old.

I don't believe its the clutch because it grabs just fine. However if i'm in 2gears too high & push the pedal to the floor the clutch does slip for a split second (0.2seconds) then grabs again. I'm pretty sure this is completely normal. Because you all know the 3.0 is a torque monster

Could it still be the slave or master without leaking any brake fluid.

Update: When it does get hard to shift, and I'm coming from a dead stop the clutch chatters and shudders / is jerky when releasing the clutch.
Your slave cyl is leaking onto your clutch, and the brake fluid from the slave that is leaking onto the clutch is whats making it chatter.
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  #17  
Old 02-21-2013, 10:56 PM
thatranger thatranger is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,061
Default Re: Transmission Perfect Till Hot

Quote:
Originally Posted by 02RangerFX4 View Post
Your slave cyl is leaking onto your clutch, and the brake fluid from the slave that is leaking onto the clutch is whats making it chatter.
I don't believe so, the res was full of brake fluid so I don't believe its leaking anything. I've been researching this all day long, and was only able to find one person have the exact same problems as me & he ended up finding out it was the pilot bearing causing the problems & had it replaced and it fixed everything. Located here: http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/11...rans-woes.html

I think I know why I'm shuddering (its not all the time but every 5times I'd say) is that my clutch pedal has always been really stiff, about 3-4times stiffer then a brand new ranger, and that I'm holding the pedal down for too long trying to get it in first gear & in a hurry to unload my leg.

However I'm not 100% sure if I'm just trying to unload my leg fast. So your idea would make sense as well. But wouldn't the slave have to leak enough for the res to get lower then normal for it to reach to the clutch?


For the ones who don't want to read the whole topic I linked to:
The guy that had the exact same issue as me replaced the master&slave, kept bleeding them day after day without fixing it. He also replaced the clutch with a new pilot bearing as well. Then not having fixed the problem he got a new flywheel and another new pilot bearing after a few shops telling him its the pilot bearing. The first pilot bearing from the clutch kit ended up breaking apart & causing all the problems. However he has a 2001 F150 with the M50D-R2

Also another member there posted this info:
Quote:
Yes a sticky, dry or tight pilot bearing can cause it be hard to shift and it can get worse when hot. If you end up removing the trans again make sure to notice the front of the input shaft where it enters the pilot bearing, it may be damaged, its a common failure. Clean the shaft with some Emory cloth as best as you can.
I'm leaning towards the pilot bearing being the problem. The clutch was replaced about 2years ago at a mom&dad type of shop, however they are not in business anymore, and the guy who changed it might of just left the old one, being too hard to remove. Or maybe the new one just went bad.

Members input are still welcomed.
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2002 Ranger 3.0 XLT | 5Speed | Flareside | 2wd | 3.73open |
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Quote:
"You rev it, and rev it, and rev it until the valves come out and dance on top of the bonnet. And then you change gear" - James May
Quote:
"9,000rpms into third!"- Jeremy Clarkson

Last edited by thatranger; 02-21-2013 at 11:40 PM.
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  #18  
Old 02-22-2013, 09:38 AM
thatranger thatranger is offline
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Posts: 1,061
Default Re: Transmission Perfect Till Hot

It seems to me that after driving for a period of time heat is transferred to the pilot bearing causing it to expand enough to 'grab' the transmission input shaft causing the transmission to rotate even when its not suppose to. A new clutch kit should fix the problem.


Quote:
The clutch pilot bearing connects the manual transmission input shaft to the engine crankshaft. The bearing allows the input shaft to rotate independently of the crankshaft.
Hard shifting due to clutch drag; transmission input shaft continues to spin slowly when clutch pedal is depressed.
http://repairpal.com/clutch-pilot-bearing

Quote:
A binding pilot shaft bearing may not make any noise and it may be an intermittent problem. Very frustrating, hard into gear occasionally, and then it behaves normally.
http://clutchdoctor.com/diagnosing_c...e_problems.php



To other people who may have the same problem in the future:

This is not the normal way pilot bearings go out. However apparently they can go out this way. The normal signs of a bad pilot bearings is bearing noise that goes away when you push in the clutch. As well as heavy vibrations in the shifter.
__________________
2002 Ranger 3.0 XLT | 5Speed | Flareside | 2wd | 3.73open |
__________________________________________________

Quote:
"You rev it, and rev it, and rev it until the valves come out and dance on top of the bonnet. And then you change gear" - James May
Quote:
"9,000rpms into third!"- Jeremy Clarkson

Last edited by thatranger; 02-22-2013 at 11:19 AM.
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  #19  
Old 02-22-2013, 02:47 PM
thatranger thatranger is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,061
Default Re: Transmission Perfect Till Hot

I have a quote from a Ford dealership for replacing the following parts for $1050-$1100

Quote:
Clutch Pilot Bearing $14.53
Clutch Release Bearing $56.87
Clutch Friction Disc $97.32
Clutch Pressure Plate $142.65
Clutch Slave Cylinder $121.57
I highly doubt I need to change the slave, since it was changed a few years ago, but since the transmission is coming out I might as well take care of that. Not going to change the master because if it goes bad its a fairly easy part to replace without removing the tranny, it was also changed a few years ago with the slave.

Its $432.94 in parts, and ford is charging between $617-$667.
I'm guessing its around 4.5hours worth of work, so on the high end they are charging $150bucks an hour! At $100 an hour for 4.5hours it should be $450bucks+parts $433=$883.
In a month or two when I have the money I'm going to tell them thats way too high and the most we will pay is $900, and even then I know that is way too much. What do you guys think?
__________________
2002 Ranger 3.0 XLT | 5Speed | Flareside | 2wd | 3.73open |
__________________________________________________

Quote:
"You rev it, and rev it, and rev it until the valves come out and dance on top of the bonnet. And then you change gear" - James May
Quote:
"9,000rpms into third!"- Jeremy Clarkson
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  #20  
Old 02-22-2013, 06:39 PM
tadpole33420 tadpole33420 is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 185
Default Re: Transmission Perfect Till Hot

get a chilton book for you truck it has troubleshooting and how to fix in their it was a huge help to me on anything i have to do to it
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  #21  
Old 03-02-2013, 04:51 PM
thatranger thatranger is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,061
Default Re: Transmission Perfect Till Hot

Just an update, the truck as been dropped off at the Ford dealership since Thursday (02/28/12) and they are taking their sweet time with the truck. Believe the leaking is due to the shift fork plugs (I believe thats what their called). However they said they will look at everything and decide whats causing problems then change the clutch out, and call if anything else beside the clutch (pilot bearing) is causing problems and needs replacing.

Just keeping this tread updated, as it'll be helpful for any future person who might have the same exact problem as me. I'll post again after I have my truck back & see if that fixed my problems.

Kind of sucks that most likely a $14.00 bearing end up costing over $1000 dollars on a clutch that isn't even 2years old.
__________________
2002 Ranger 3.0 XLT | 5Speed | Flareside | 2wd | 3.73open |
__________________________________________________

Quote:
"You rev it, and rev it, and rev it until the valves come out and dance on top of the bonnet. And then you change gear" - James May
Quote:
"9,000rpms into third!"- Jeremy Clarkson
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  #22  
Old 03-07-2013, 03:17 PM
thatranger thatranger is offline
Ford Ranger Driver
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,061
Default Re: Transmission Perfect Till Hot

Okay got the truck back today (03/07/13) after seven days of ford having it. They found out the leak was from the rear main seal & replaced it for $95.88 total(guess the atf smell came from spilled fluid that got on the exhaust while driving). They of course replaced the clutch as well and all the bearings. My clutch pedal feels really light, before it was a firm clutch pedal, now its lighter, but not as light as my brothers '11 Ranger. However I didn't want the feel to change at all, but its a solid feel when pushing it in. My brothers tends to lose the spring feel 2/3 backs causing me to hit the clutch pedal against the firewall due to it, during the first few times driving it.

Anyways, this seems to sloved my problem, drove it an hour home from the dealership and it shifted smooth & easy, as before it would be hard to shift after a long drive. I still believe the pilot bearing was the problem, heating up after an hour drive, and turning into a 'locked'/seized bearing that would spend the tranny with the engine acting as a 2nd clutch that couldn't be moved. However this problem has lasted close to a year now, if you check my topics I've made, I posted this same problem last Jan/Feb. However over the last 12+ months it would take less and less time before it would act up, to the point where it could act up within a 30minute drive really.

Cost:
Parts $415.77 (clutch kit,slave,bearings,rear main seal)
Labor $600.00
Total $1015.77
(really had to fight with them to get the best price on everything, other wise it would of been well over $1300 at the Ford Dealership)
__________________
2002 Ranger 3.0 XLT | 5Speed | Flareside | 2wd | 3.73open |
__________________________________________________

Quote:
"You rev it, and rev it, and rev it until the valves come out and dance on top of the bonnet. And then you change gear" - James May
Quote:
"9,000rpms into third!"- Jeremy Clarkson

Last edited by thatranger; 03-07-2013 at 03:19 PM.
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  #23  
Old 05-16-2019, 10:35 AM
MotorCar Doctor MotorCar Doctor is offline
Learning to use the forums
 
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 2
Default Re: Transmission Perfect Till Hot

Quote:
Originally Posted by thatranger View Post
It seems to me that after driving for a period of time heat is transferred to the pilot bearing causing it to expand enough to 'grab' the transmission input shaft causing the transmission to rotate even when its not suppose to. A new clutch kit should fix the problem.



http://repairpal.com/clutch-pilot-bearing


http://clutchdoctor.com/diagnosing_c...e_problems.php



To other people who may have the same problem in the future:

This is not the normal way pilot bearings go out. However apparently they can go out this way. The normal signs of a bad pilot bearings is bearing noise that goes away when you push in the clutch. As well as heavy vibrations in the shifter.
Hello, Jeff from MotorCar Dr here. The link to clutch release problems has been moved to
https://www.clutchdoctor.com/causes-...fting-problems

Here are a couple of other helpful links
https://www.clutchdoctor.com/clutch-repair

If anyone needs help with ranger clutch problems please reach out
jeff@clutchdoctor.com
We are experts at solving all clutch related problems on a ford ranger. We have good hydraulic bleeding procedures and transmission tips
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