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03-29-2014, 02:17 PM
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Junkyard Dog
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Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,906
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Need Transmission Interchange Info
To make a long story short. I screwed my transmission up doing a band adjustment by not backing off the overdrive band 2 turns before locking her down(overdrive brake/coast clutch drum is mutilated and so is the overdrive planet gear assembly.) To fix my 4r44e or switch to a M5OD is about a horse a piece (about the same price, if you've never heard that expression).
So which 4r44e's or M5OD-R1s will swap to my 2000 2.5?
What is the difference among the years/models? Bell housings different, etc?
I'm gonna be going to pull apart and pretty much which one is available/easiest to pull will most likely be the winner.
If I go with the automatic I'm setting up to rebuild it all the way including the valve body and just use the best hard parts among the two transmissions.
If I go with the M5OD I will be buy a brand new slave/master cylinder kit, flywheel, and clutch kit.
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Automotive Electronics Engineer
2000 XLT 2.5L A/T
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03-29-2014, 02:30 PM
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Welcome to FRF!
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Join Date: Oct 2010
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Re: Need Transmission Interchange Info
It cost me about $1200 to do the M5OD swap. It was gonna be at least $1800 to rebuild the automatic, and that's with a 1 year warranty.
Now that I have a 5-speed, I don't have to worry about rebuilding an automatic again in a few years/40,000 miles.
Does your automatic have an output shaft speed sensor on the tail housing? If so, you'll need to find a transmission with the same. If not, you'll need to find a transmission without, or find a way to plug the OSS sensor hole on the 2001+ transmissions.
Last edited by Fordzilla80; 03-29-2014 at 02:32 PM.
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03-29-2014, 02:37 PM
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Junkyard Dog
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Join Date: Sep 2010
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Re: Need Transmission Interchange Info
Here is what I got:
Automatic rebuild:
Hard parts: 50 bucks (just found all the parts I need as a set on ebay)
Rebuild kit with all seals, gaskets, bands, and servos: 165.78
Transgo VB rebuild/shift kit: 35
Fluid: 60
Total: $310.78 for a refreshed automatic
I'm still debating using a new torque converter, may have one flushed at local shop.
Manual:
Clutch: $153.99
Cylinder kit: $ 114.67
Transmission (pull a part): 99.95 (gonna through the misc shifter parts on the tranny to have them ring it up as one unit)
Pedal assembly: 12.02
Flywheel: 42.69
Total: 423.32
That's for a manual that may or may not have bad syncros (crap shoot).
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Automotive Electronics Engineer
2000 XLT 2.5L A/T
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03-29-2014, 02:40 PM
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Welcome to FRF!
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Re: Need Transmission Interchange Info
So you're rebuilding the automatic yourself? That changes things.
Don't forget that you'll need the computer and wiring harness from the manual truck if you go that route. You could just leave the shift selector in Neutral, but that's a cheap way of doing things.
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03-29-2014, 02:46 PM
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Junkyard Dog
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40 bucks for a computer. Good thing 4 bangers don't have chipped keys. Btw what would happen if you ran an auto computer with a manual tranny besides error codes. Does it mess up the timing or something? You actually tried this/seen this?
For the harness I would just use the factory one and tape up the unused take outs/branches. Then I would jump the pins for neutral and depin the two wires for the reverse switch and repin them into a reverse switch connector.
We do stuff like this all the time at work when we are phasing out models and have leftover harnesses.
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2000 XLT 2.5L A/T
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03-29-2014, 02:56 PM
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Welcome to FRF!
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Re: Need Transmission Interchange Info
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheltonfilms
40 bucks for a computer. Good thing 4 bangers don't have chipped keys. Btw what would happen if you ran an auto computer with a manual tranny besides error codes. Does it mess up the timing or something? You actually tried this/seen this?
For the harness I would just use the factory one and tape up the unused take outs/branches. Then I would jump the pins for neutral and depin the two wires for the reverse switch and repin them into a reverse switch connector.
We do stuff like this all the time at work when we are phasing out models and have leftover harnesses.
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I completely swapped wiring harnesses on my truck, so I don't know for sure.
But from what I've read, your biggest issue would be with the 3k rev limiter in neutral. Even if you connect the signal and signal return wires for the DTRS, the computer probably will still keep the rev limit at 3K since it will still sense a neutral gear selector position. Same goes starting the truck.
I have no idea about engine timing, but that's a good question.
You can always run the manual computer with the automatic wiring harness. That will eliminate the codes, but will allow you to still run the automatic wiring harness.
To be quite honest though, I think a manual swap wouldn't be worth it if you aren't dead set on it. Swapping the pedal assemblies is a pain in itself. Just finding another 4R44E will be much easier. And with the 4R44E, bell housing shouldn't matter because the 4R44E-5R55E all have removable front pump/bell housing assemblies.
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03-29-2014, 03:04 PM
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Junkyard Dog
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My truck doesn't have a 3k rev limiter in neutral for my year. Ford added that later. I can free rev to about 6k.
What's the big issue with the pedals?
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03-29-2014, 03:20 PM
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Welcome to FRF!
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Join Date: Oct 2010
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Re: Need Transmission Interchange Info
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheltonfilms
My truck doesn't have a 3k rev limiter in neutral for my year. Ford added that later. I can free rev to about 6k.
What's the big issue with the pedals?
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Then you shouldn't have anything to worry about.
There are two bolts at the very top that are maybe 2 inches away from the fiberglass dash support. You can pretty much only get to them with a wrench, and even that is a pain. I spent probably 20 minutes just trying to get those upper two bolts out on both the junkyard truck, and my own truck. Of course, if you remove your cowl panel, you can cheat and turn them from the other side since they protrude into the cowl,
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03-29-2014, 04:17 PM
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Junkyard Dog
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Sounds like a good challenge.
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Do those bolts also hold the brake booster on?
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03-29-2014, 05:16 PM
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On my 3rd Ranger
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Re: Need Transmission Interchange Info
I know one thing you shouldn't have to worry about: cutting a hole in the floor for the shifter, pretty sure the hole is already there, and covered with a silver plate.
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1987 2.3/TK5, 125K.
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03-29-2014, 05:21 PM
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Junkyard Dog
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Yeah I've seen that when I had to pull the carpet back to disconnect the dash to rear harness connector. Mine is a solid plate and the manuals have the plate with a hole precut with IIRC another boot/big grommet.
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Automotive Electronics Engineer
2000 XLT 2.5L A/T
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03-29-2014, 05:31 PM
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Welcome to FRF!
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Re: Need Transmission Interchange Info
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheltonfilms
Sounds like a good challenge.
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Do those bolts also hold the brake booster on?
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No. There are 6 bolts total. The top two are a pain to get to. The other four are easy to get to, and are what holds the brake booster to the firewall.
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03-29-2014, 05:34 PM
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Junkyard Dog
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I'm looking at a diagram now and I see what you are saying. You are talking about the two that go straight up correct?
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And when you said cowl are you referring to the black trim piece at the defrost area?
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03-29-2014, 05:35 PM
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Welcome to FRF!
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Join Date: Oct 2010
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Re: Need Transmission Interchange Info
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheltonfilms
Yeah I've seen that when I had to pull the carpet back to disconnect the dash to rear harness connector. Mine is a solid plate and the manuals have the plate with a hole precut with IIRC another boot/big grommet.
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There's a square black plastic piece with a boot that screws to the floor plate. The cup holder assembly then screws to that. Most 98+ Rangers and Explorers have them. I don't know if the older Rangers have the same thing.
Keep in mind too that the shifter stub is clocked differently on the M5OD-R1 and the M5OD-R1HD. A shift lever for an R1 won't work right on an R1HD unless you do some modifications.
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03-29-2014, 05:38 PM
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Junkyard Dog
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Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,906
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fordzilla80
There's a square black plastic piece with a boot that screws to the floor plate. The cup holder assembly then screws to that. Most 98+ Rangers and Explorers have them. I don't know if the older Rangers have the same thing.
Keep in mind too that the shifter stub is clocked differently on the M5OD-R1 and the M5OD-R1HD. A shift lever for an R1 won't work right on an R1HD unless you do some modifications.
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Ok some more memory is coming back. My cup holder piece connects to a black trim piece that is screwed to the silver piece. I remember when I pulled my tranny two days ago that the silver plate had foam in the middle where the shifter would go through. In thinking the plate is universal now.
I'll see if I can get pretty picture.
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