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  #1  
Old 07-20-2012, 08:48 PM
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Default 99 2.5L Engine Cranks, but won't start after replacing broken timing belt

Ok first off, new to the forum... 1999 2.5L 4cyl manual transmission, timing belt snapped while driving.. I have replaced the timing belt, aligning all marks on the crankshaft, crank pulley, oil pump pulley, and Camshaft pulley.... I am at TDC, I have spark, fuel pump is engaging, engine cranks over but will not start.. thought I may of been 180 out, reinstalled belt again, same issue...

I did put Crank/pulley and harmonic balancer back on before trying test start, I have half a tank of gas, compression is good, ... I've exhausted all of my thoughts on the matter and need some ideas as to what to try next.. would either the crank position sensor or cam position sensor cause this?
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  #2  
Old 07-20-2012, 10:21 PM
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Default Re: 99 2.5L Engine Cranks, but won't start after replacing broken timing belt

Quote:
Originally Posted by White99 View Post
Ok first off, new to the forum... 1999 2.5L 4cyl manual transmission, timing belt snapped while driving.. I have replaced the timing belt, aligning all marks on the crankshaft, crank pulley, oil pump pulley, and Camshaft pulley.... I am at TDC, I have spark, fuel pump is engaging, engine cranks over but will not start.. thought I may of been 180 out, reinstalled belt again, same issue...

I did put Crank/pulley and harmonic balancer back on before trying test start, I have half a tank of gas, compression is good, ... I've exhausted all of my thoughts on the matter and need some ideas as to what to try next.. would either the crank position sensor or cam position sensor cause this?
You can be off by one or two teeth on the cam and still have good compression and a no start condition. Make SURE your really at TDC on the crank. The way I do it is by removing all of the plugs and rotate the the crank with a 1/2 ratchet/socket on the crank bolt and my thumb over the #1 plug hole till I feel the compression ,then I put a plastic straw in the hole and and watch the straw till I'm at TDC. Then line up the marks as in the diagram.

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  #3  
Old 07-23-2012, 08:45 AM
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Default Re: 99 2.5L Engine Cranks, but won't start after replacing broken timing belt

Ok, I stepped away, tore it back down and started over..

Thanks for the input Rangerman, I put crank keyway at 12 O'Clock, dot on sprocket matches notch in cover, checked #1 cylinder is at top dead center, I can see top of piston when I look in #1 spark plug hole, used screw driver to double check . Aligned Oil pump pully timing marks (diamond to diamond), turned camshaft pulley to match timing marks (triangle to triangle).. Put belt back on starting with crank, to oil pump, to cam, keeping belt tight, released tensioner very carefully.. put crank pulley and crank bolt back on, turned two revolutions by hand and all of the marks lined up.. still no start.. turns over, sounds as if it's about to fire, but doesn't..

Thinking I may of been overlooking something, I checked to be sure I was getting spark. I changed all 4 plugs on the right side of the engine, checked compression in all 4 cylinders #1 (160psi), #2 (160psi), #3 (150psi), #4 (160psi).. all within acceptable pressure.

I checked fuel pump is engaging, checked valve on fuel rail (fuel is getting to the injectors.

So I have timing marks lined up (doesn't backfire or sputter when turning over, so pretty sure I'm not 180 out), I have half tank of gas and I'm getting fuel, and I have spark..

I'm at a real loss for where to go next.. I had a mechanic run ODBII code reader, didn"t find any codes that would cause a no start .. an he was at a loss for why it wouldn't start
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2.5 ltr 4 cyl SOHC 197,000 Miles
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  #4  
Old 07-23-2012, 03:10 PM
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Default Re: 99 2.5L Engine Cranks, but won't start after replacing broken timing belt

Just throwing this out there, but did you retighten the tensioner bolt?
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  #5  
Old 07-23-2012, 06:58 PM
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Default Re: 99 2.5L Engine Cranks, but won't start after replacing broken timing belt

Quote:
Originally Posted by White99 View Post
Ok, I stepped away, tore it back down and started over..

Thanks for the input Rangerman, I put crank keyway at 12 O'Clock, dot on sprocket matches notch in cover, checked #1 cylinder is at top dead center, I can see top of piston when I look in #1 spark plug hole, used screw driver to double check . Aligned Oil pump pully timing marks (diamond to diamond), turned camshaft pulley to match timing marks (triangle to triangle).. Put belt back on starting with crank, to oil pump, to cam, keeping belt tight, released tensioner very carefully.. put crank pulley and crank bolt back on, turned two revolutions by hand and all of the marks lined up.. still no start.. turns over, sounds as if it's about to fire, but doesn't..

Thinking I may of been overlooking something, I checked to be sure I was getting spark. I changed all 4 plugs on the right side of the engine, checked compression in all 4 cylinders #1 (160psi), #2 (160psi), #3 (150psi), #4 (160psi).. all within acceptable pressure.

I checked fuel pump is engaging, checked valve on fuel rail (fuel is getting to the injectors.

So I have timing marks lined up (doesn't backfire or sputter when turning over, so pretty sure I'm not 180 out), I have half tank of gas and I'm getting fuel, and I have spark..

I'm at a real loss for where to go next.. I had a mechanic run ODBII code reader, didn"t find any codes that would cause a no start .. an he was at a loss for why it wouldn't start

If you were 180 out you wouldn't have any compression, so that isn't your problem.
I take it your crank position sensor is mounted correctly!!??
Have you sprayed some carb cleaner into the intake to see if she'll fire?? If you do, try to spray somewhere AFTER the MAF....not good to spray CARB cleaner on the MAF!!! Also you check spark with a old school timing light by hooking it up to any of the sparkplug wires and see if the light flashes when you crank it over...
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Torque it down till it breaks off, then back it off 1/4 turn.
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  #6  
Old 07-23-2012, 07:16 PM
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Default Re: 99 2.5L Engine Cranks, but won't start after replacing broken timing belt

Spark wires hooked up backwards???


Front coil pack:

4 2
1 3


Rear coil pack:

1 3
4 2
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  #7  
Old 07-24-2012, 03:38 PM
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Default

check to see if your getting fuel to the fuel injectors
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  #8  
Old 07-25-2012, 10:14 AM
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Default Re: 99 2.5L Engine Cranks, but won't start after replacing broken timing belt

Ok, let me run down the list of those responses..

Tomboy - Yes, I tighted the bolt on the tensioner to be sure the belt didnt' skip a tooth, after cranking a few times, everything still lines up.

Rangerman49 - I'm thinking the crank position sensor is the problem - I had a mechanic run the ODBII Code Reader, but nothing showed up, I'm guessing it's because the truck isn't running since the belt broke, it hasn't been able to read the code.. - maybe it was jarred when the belt broke..I'm going to try that next. I'll try the carb cleaner if the sensor isn't the problem

94mxt - all the wires are in the correct order - even changed plugs when I did compression check for good measure (#3 & #4) on intake side were a real pain, but got them changed out.

2.3ranger - pretty sure I'm getting fuel- have half a tank of gas, filter isn't that old, pump is engaging, and checked pressure on fuel rail (unscrewed cap on fuel rail, pushed in needle valve, and gas sprayed out at a pretty good rate)- can smell the gas when I crank it over
was working fine before belt broke

----------

Update ** while removing old crank position sensor, it broke off in the mount -- a real pain, so maybe it was bad.. any ideas as to how to get the broken piece out of the mount? I'm thinking of burning it out.

Got the new sensor at Autozone for $18.99, be ready to put it in once I get all of the old one out..
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  #9  
Old 07-25-2012, 10:19 AM
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Default Re: 99 2.5L Engine Cranks, but won't start after replacing broken timing belt

Did you check to make sure the belt slack was on the proper side? And that you were rotating the engine the proper way?

On my YZ250F, I had an issue were the slack was on the wrong side. So when the tensioner took out the slack, it shifted the gears.
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  #10  
Old 07-25-2012, 10:35 AM
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Default Re: 99 2.5L Engine Cranks, but won't start after replacing broken timing belt

Pooleo - yep, Engine rotates clockwise, started belt at crank and went counter-clockwise to oil pump to camshaft and around the tensioner last. - it's on properly
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2.5 ltr 4 cyl SOHC 197,000 Miles
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  #11  
Old 07-26-2012, 08:38 AM
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Exclamation Re: 99 2.5L Engine Cranks, but won't start after replacing broken timing belt

** Update **

Replaced Crankshaft Position Sensor.. Still cranks, but no start..

The sensor doesn't appear to be adjustable in any way, it just fits in the mount and bolts down with one 8mm bolt. 2 wire harness plugs in to top. (it did sound better and closer to starting, but no luck)

Recap - #1 truck was running fine before timing belt broke
#2 new timing belt is installed - aligned correctly all timing
marks line up - double checked to be sure not 180 out
#3 Fuel Pump relay is engaging, checked at schrader valve on
fuel rail, plenty of pressure (shoots fuel when key is on)
#4 I have spark (pull number 1 plug and watched it when
cranking (definately sparks) Replaced plugs on intake side
when checking compression
#5 Compression - #1 Cylinder 160psi, #2 160psi, #3 150psi,
#4 160psi
#6 - crank position sensor replaced

I don't know where to go from here .. next step is to have it towed to a service garage..
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2.5 ltr 4 cyl SOHC 197,000 Miles
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  #12  
Old 07-26-2012, 12:31 PM
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Default Re: 99 2.5L Engine Cranks, but won't start after replacing broken timing belt

Just had a lengthy conversation with a mechanic from local shop.. here is the advice I got..

#1 Camshaft Postion Sensor (from reading other posts, I though I should start and run even if poorly even if this was disconnected) mechanic said I wouldn't have a code yet because it compares itself to crank position to ensure fuel is sent at correct time to cylinders.
Haynes Manual says it is located behind the oil pump pulley.. explains why I couldn't see it before.

#2 Going to try to start with ether (starting fluid) to check for fuel injector problem (already know fuel is getting to them) going to check them individually if I start on ether



#3 - Possible that I broke the camshaft sprocket locator pin (said the pin sets behind the cam pulley and ensures that it is correctly aligned to the crank) not probable though

#4 also changing the remaining plugs on the exhaust side of the engine
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2.5 ltr 4 cyl SOHC 197,000 Miles
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  #13  
Old 07-26-2012, 04:55 PM
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Default Re: 99 2.5L Engine Cranks, but won't start after replacing broken timing belt

sounds like you are trying everything i can think of too. I hope ya find it soon.
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  #14  
Old 07-26-2012, 07:11 PM
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Default Re: 99 2.5L Engine Cranks, but won't start after replacing broken timing belt

Quote:
Originally Posted by White99 View Post
Just had a lengthy conversation with a mechanic from local shop.. here is the advice I got..

#1 Camshaft Postion Sensor (from reading other posts, I though I should start and run even if poorly even if this was disconnected) mechanic said I wouldn't have a code yet because it compares itself to crank position to ensure fuel is sent at correct time to cylinders.
Haynes Manual says it is located behind the oil pump pulley.. explains why I couldn't see it before.

#2 Going to try to start with ether (starting fluid) to check for fuel injector problem (already know fuel is getting to them) going to check them individually if I start on ether



#3 - Possible that I broke the camshaft sprocket locator pin (said the pin sets behind the cam pulley and ensures that it is correctly aligned to the crank) not probable though

#4 also changing the remaining plugs on the exhaust side of the engine
My guess would be the Cam sensor....I believe it tells PCM when to fire the injectors....If they fire after the plug fires then you have a no start condition...
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2011 Ranger XLT 2x4,4.0 SOHC, 5 Speed Auto, 3.55 Rear. Oxford White.

Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.

Torque it down till it breaks off, then back it off 1/4 turn.
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  #15  
Old 08-01-2012, 08:28 PM
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Default Re: 99 2.5L Engine Cranks, but won't start after replacing broken timing belt

** Update**

Cam sensor replaced, still no start -- R.I.P. next stop scrap yard..

giving up on it for now, just gonna park it and forget about it until I have time to make it a rebuild project.
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2.5 ltr 4 cyl SOHC 197,000 Miles
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