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  #16  
Old 07-23-2012, 01:35 PM
Steven_in_Toronto Steven_in_Toronto is offline
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Default Re: Intermittent problem-cranks but won't start- 2.5L 5 spd manual

I've done the OBD scan approx 8 times over the past few weeks. Always comes up "NO CODES".

Just dropped the truck off at the dealer. Will wait to see what they say.
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1998 2.5L, 5 Sp Manual, 2WD, 2 door reg cab, 183K miles and a blend door that works! (after the "nail fix")
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  #17  
Old 07-23-2012, 01:40 PM
modelageek modelageek is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven_in_Toronto
I've done the OBD scan approx 8 times over the past few weeks. Always comes up "NO CODES".

Just dropped the truck off at the dealer. Will wait to see what they say.
If it is a ford dealer they will want $800-$1,000 for a new punp.

Your tests showed no pressure issues. Could be a volume issue but i doubt it going by your description of the pressure tests

Next time give us the obd code feedback.
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2004 Ext Cab, 4WD, 4.0, Auto, 154k. (4.0 engine is out of a 2009 Ranger w/96k) ( as of 7/1/2017)

2004 Ranger, Ext Cab, 2WD, 3.0, 5 speed , 4WABS, crank windows, no cruise, Edge 116k.(6/5,2014) (SOLD).
1999 Ford Ranger, Reg Cab, 2.5, 5 speed, 2WD, no AC, 150k (SOLD).
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  #18  
Old 07-23-2012, 02:18 PM
Steven_in_Toronto Steven_in_Toronto is offline
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Default Re: Intermittent problem-cranks but won't start- 2.5L 5 spd manual

Thanks very much for your help so far.
Yes, testing so far shows no fuel pressure issues, but I think the intermittent nature of the problem makes it very hard to confirm what's going on.

If the Ford Dealer says $800 for a new pump, I'm thinking I should probably install it myself. Quick search on eBay shows Bosch units selling for approx $60.

I have another vehicle to get to work with so, depending on the response from the Dealer, I may just do it myself. Hopefully I'll at least get a "professional" diagnosis and confirm whether the pump and/or check valve is really the problem.
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1998 2.5L, 5 Sp Manual, 2WD, 2 door reg cab, 183K miles and a blend door that works! (after the "nail fix")
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  #19  
Old 07-23-2012, 02:29 PM
modelageek modelageek is offline
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Default Re: Intermittent problem-cranks but won't start- 2.5L 5 spd manual

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven_in_Toronto View Post
Thanks very much for your help so far.
Yes, testing so far shows no fuel pressure issues, but I think the intermittent nature of the problem makes it very hard to confirm what's going on.

If the Ford Dealer says $800 for a new pump, I'm thinking I should probably install it myself. Quick search on eBay shows Bosch units selling for approx $60.

I have another vehicle to get to work with so, depending on the response from the Dealer, I may just do it myself. Hopefully I'll at least get a "professional" diagnosis and confirm whether the pump and/or check valve is really the problem.
As I stated already add a bottle of Techron to the tank.....Ford might even suggest the same thing. The pump you saw on ebay I am sure is just the pump not the entire assembly. if your checkvalve is the issue you need the entire assembly. ......look on Rockauto.com..........if ford suggests a new pump they most likely will only install a Motorcraft. the part itself from ford is North of $500.........They probably will charge a $100 for the DX. if you change it, unless you own a lift remove the bed.
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2004 Ext Cab, 4WD, 4.0, Auto, 154k. (4.0 engine is out of a 2009 Ranger w/96k) ( as of 7/1/2017)

2004 Ranger, Ext Cab, 2WD, 3.0, 5 speed , 4WABS, crank windows, no cruise, Edge 116k.(6/5,2014) (SOLD).
1999 Ford Ranger, Reg Cab, 2.5, 5 speed, 2WD, no AC, 150k (SOLD).
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  #20  
Old 07-25-2012, 05:18 AM
Steven_in_Toronto Steven_in_Toronto is offline
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Default Re: Intermittent problem-cranks but won't start- 2.5L 5 spd manual

The Ford Dealer wasn’t able to find any faults, partly because it always started for them! No codes showing; no problems found. $67 to find out there’s “nothing wrong” with my truck!

The mechanic did swap a few relays (horn and fuel pump). I suppose that could have “fixed” it. I’ve started a tally sheet to track the number of “no starts”. So far (6 attempts) I’ve got zero faults.

It seems that Techron is not sold in Ontario. I’ve ordered some from Amazon. Until it arrives I’ve added some Motormaster (Canadian Tire) Fuel System Cleaner to the tank.

Interesting info re that “Fuel Pulse Damper” on the injector rail:

My Haynes manual says removing the vacuum line from it will lower the fuel pressure 3-10 psi. On-line comments from a Senior Ford Mechanic indicate the vacuum hose is only there “as a safety” in case the damper diaphragm ruptures; removing the vacuum has no effect on fuel pressure. The Senior Mechanic I spoke to yesterday says if you remove the vacuum hose the fuel pressure will go up; and also, “if you don’t have fuel pouring out of it, it’s fine”.

So there you have it! Fuel pressure up, down or neither; take your pick!

This same mechanic told me that I probably don’t have a problem with either the crankshaft or camshaft position sensors because the truck’s computer constantly monitors output from both and compares for consistency. It would record a fault code it there was ever a problem. He also didn’t think the check valve could have an intermittent fault like the one I’ve been experiencing.
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1998 2.5L, 5 Sp Manual, 2WD, 2 door reg cab, 183K miles and a blend door that works! (after the "nail fix")
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  #21  
Old 07-25-2012, 06:03 AM
modelageek modelageek is offline
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Default Re: Intermittent problem-cranks but won't start- 2.5L 5 spd manual

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven_in_Toronto View Post
The Ford Dealer wasn’t able to find any faults, partly because it always started for them! No codes showing; no problems found. $67 to find out there’s “nothing wrong” with my truck!

The mechanic did swap a few relays (horn and fuel pump). I suppose that could have “fixed” it. I’ve started a tally sheet to track the number of “no starts”. So far (6 attempts) I’ve got zero faults.

It seems that Techron is not sold in Ontario. I’ve ordered some from Amazon. Until it arrives I’ve added some Motormaster (Canadian Tire) Fuel System Cleaner to the tank.

Interesting info re that “Fuel Pulse Damper” on the injector rail:

My Haynes manual says removing the vacuum line from it will lower the fuel pressure 3-10 psi. On-line comments from a Senior Ford Mechanic indicate the vacuum hose is only there “as a safety” in case the damper diaphragm ruptures; removing the vacuum has no effect on fuel pressure. The Senior Mechanic I spoke to yesterday says if you remove the vacuum hose the fuel pressure will go up; and also, “if you don’t have fuel pouring out of it, it’s fine”.

So there you have it! Fuel pressure up, down or neither; take your pick!

This same mechanic told me that I probably don’t have a problem with either the crankshaft or camshaft position sensors because the truck’s computer constantly monitors output from both and compares for consistency. It would record a fault code it there was ever a problem. He also didn’t think the check valve could have an intermittent fault like the one I’ve been experiencing.
I agree I doubt the check valve would be intermittent and your fuel pressure tests showed zero indication of a bad check valve( you siad KOEO the FP went right to 64psi on the first cycle. that is as good as you can get. some trucks take a few cycles to get to full pressure). I also agree that the cam and crank sensors would most likely throw a code. That is why I constantly preach for members to own there own scanner(as cheap as $20) and check for pending codes( no one hardly listens to me)

Fuel issue do not always throw codes

Thinking outside the box I wonder if it could be a bad ignition switch. do you always cycle the key twice now? does it always start on the 2nd cycle?......you should try turning the key to run, waiting 3 or 4 seconds and then turn the key to start. do not turn it back to off and then to start.

I would have starter fluid and a spark tester handy.

next time it does not start on the first try get a rag and cover the shrader valve and then press it in........see what you have for fuel pressure?......you have to isolate what the issue is.
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2004 Ext Cab, 4WD, 4.0, Auto, 154k. (4.0 engine is out of a 2009 Ranger w/96k) ( as of 7/1/2017)

2004 Ranger, Ext Cab, 2WD, 3.0, 5 speed , 4WABS, crank windows, no cruise, Edge 116k.(6/5,2014) (SOLD).
1999 Ford Ranger, Reg Cab, 2.5, 5 speed, 2WD, no AC, 150k (SOLD).
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  #22  
Old 07-25-2012, 08:23 AM
jcube_04 jcube_04 is offline
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Cgood jobgetting info
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2003 Ranger 2wd 5 spd. 2.3L, 3 in blocks, 5 in. Camburg spindles, 1 in uniball upper control arms, upgraded coils with Rancho shocks. Buggman LED cluster. Painted 2wd fog bezel, shifter cupholders, door handle surrounds, window lever, and lock lever. 33 in wild countrys.
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  #23  
Old 07-25-2012, 09:07 AM
Steven_in_Toronto Steven_in_Toronto is offline
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Default Re: Intermittent problem-cranks but won't start- 2.5L 5 spd manual

Yeah, got my scanner for about $20 and even though it’s not found anything yet, it’s some comfort to see what’s “not happening”. BTW, the Ford Dealer did no better with his scanner!

Re: bad ignition switch. For the next few days I think I’ll try “normal” operation; i.e. only resorting to the “double key” trick if it doesn’t start immediately.

Yes, checking for pressure visually at the Schrader valve seems a good idea. I was even thinking I should rig a fuel pressure gauge I could read in the cab. If the problem continues I will likely do that.

Starter fluid and spark tester are ALWAYS in my cab now; along with scanner, VOM, tools, manuals, etc. Starting to look like a real red neck rig.
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1998 2.5L, 5 Sp Manual, 2WD, 2 door reg cab, 183K miles and a blend door that works! (after the "nail fix")
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  #24  
Old 07-26-2012, 07:23 PM
ajtipler ajtipler is offline
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I recently had similar problem have your starter tested i had to replace the solenoid in mine it did the trick
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  #25  
Old 07-27-2012, 02:10 PM
Steven_in_Toronto Steven_in_Toronto is offline
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Default Re: Intermittent problem-cranks but won't start- 2.5L 5 spd manual

I had the starter replaced only a few months ago, so I don't think that's the problem.

For the past few days the truck has been starting fine (knock wood!) Haven't seen a single instance of "cranks, won't start".

...and a final note for Canadians, Amazon won't ship Techron to Canada.
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1998 2.5L, 5 Sp Manual, 2WD, 2 door reg cab, 183K miles and a blend door that works! (after the "nail fix")
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  #26  
Old 12-20-2012, 02:04 AM
pblood40 pblood40 is offline
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Default Re: Intermittent problem-cranks but won't start- 2.5L 5 spd manual

Did you ever get this fixed? I am having the same problem with my '99.
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  #27  
Old 12-27-2012, 11:20 AM
gofastbobby gofastbobby is offline
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Default Re: Intermittent problem-cranks but won't start- 2.5L 5 spd manual

bump for a similar issue in my 02.

does anyone know the active ingredient of Techron? Would Seafoam do the same thing?
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2002 Ranger xl, regular cab short bed, 2.3 16v, 5spd manual. only options are a/c and cruise control, neither currently work. Small mods planned. Looking forward to my ranger being an ultra reliable commuter/wood hauler.
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  #28  
Old 12-27-2012, 02:45 PM
mxpxpunkrock1987 mxpxpunkrock1987 is offline
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Default Re: Intermittent problem-cranks but won't start- 2.5L 5 spd manual

i know on older ford no start if its auto would be neutral safey switch but 5 spd i would check the foot pedal for the clutch as the box then when u press the clutch if u follow the wires some have a relay or some times the wires come undone
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  #29  
Old 12-27-2012, 10:13 PM
gofastbobby gofastbobby is offline
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Default Re: Intermittent problem-cranks but won't start- 2.5L 5 spd manual

Very interesting. Thank you. I'll look into that this weekend.

It seems to be happening about every third or 4th start. I was running around today and the truck didnt act up on me at all, until after I was home for the day. I swapped a ujoint and changed the oil in the Trans and after that it didnt want to run. It seems that fuel is the problem. I'll shoot some ether in the intake and crank it over, it'll stumble for a second or two then fire right up.
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2002 Ranger xl, regular cab short bed, 2.3 16v, 5spd manual. only options are a/c and cruise control, neither currently work. Small mods planned. Looking forward to my ranger being an ultra reliable commuter/wood hauler.
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  #30  
Old 12-30-2012, 01:41 AM
RangerJoe52 RangerJoe52 is offline
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Default Re: Intermittent problem-cranks but won't start- 2.5L 5 spd manual

I am not the brightest tool in the shed but I will take a shot at this. Next time it does not start on the first cycle before spraying ether and trying again test fuel at the Schrader valve see if there is fuel there where I am going with this is a weak pump or possibly screen picking up some trash from the bottom of the tank, and when you cycle the key a second time it drops the trash and starts. Also have you clean and checked the throttle body for proper operation? When it does this how much gas is in it and have you run the tank low and maybe picked up some trash. A shot in the dark that does not cost you anything.
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Last edited by RangerJoe52; 12-30-2012 at 01:43 AM. Reason: added more text
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