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01-12-2020, 05:42 PM
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Learning to use the forums
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Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 5
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Manual transmission problem
Hello friends,
I am having such a difficult time with my transmission. The problem has multiple mechanics stumped.
BLUF: Will not shift into gear like there was air in the master cylinder
2003 2.3L engine with manual transmission would not shift into gear when the car was on and clutch compressed.
-Changed out master cylinder: no change
-Changed out clutch and slave cylinder: no change
-Bleed the brand new master cylinder: shift for five minutes of driving and then fills up with air and won't shift.
Some history:
-Bought the truck in 2012
-Went in for new clutch in 2013, mechanic said some of the gears were scored and recommended a rebuilt transmission. I took his advice and this was a big mistake. Immediately the truck would not shift into gears after about thirty minutes of driving. He replaced the slave cylinder with the transmission swap but not the master cylinder
-I replace the master cylinder, same problems. Won't shift into gear after about thirty minutes of driving
-Take it to the mechanic who did the transmission work and tell him the problem. He says I need a new master cylinder. I try to explain I just replaced it, but he doesn't listen
-He puts in a new master cylinder, same problem
-Take it back to him and also take my 80 year old former mechanic grandfather who tells him to change out the "servo" that runs from the master cylinder to the slave cylinder. The mechanic listens to him and the problem goes away. Finally!
2016 - Give the truck to my brother
2019 - Truck won't shift into gear
-brother changes out the master cylinder; no change
-drops the transmission, changes slave cylinder and clutch; no change
-bench bleeds and gravity bleeds master cylinder; after 5 minutes of driving, won't go into gear
Please tell me someone else has had that problem. My grandfather's memory has totally gone since 2013, so when I ask him what a "servo" between the master and slave cylinder is, he has no idea what I'm talking about. I asked my brother how the master and slave cylinder connect, he said the connected directly.
Any help would be appreciated.
__________________
Truck Model: 2003 Ford Ranger 2.3L 4cyl XL Regular Cab
Truck Name: "Murphy" (Yes, as in Murphy's Law)
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01-18-2020, 07:49 PM
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One day at a time
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Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 95
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Re: Manual transmission problem
Quote:
Originally Posted by gussie003
Hello friends,
I am having such a difficult time with my transmission. The problem has multiple mechanics stumped.
BLUF: Will not shift into gear like there was air in the master cylinder
2003 2.3L engine with manual transmission would not shift into gear when the car was on and clutch compressed.
-Changed out master cylinder: no change
-Changed out clutch and slave cylinder: no change
-Bleed the brand new master cylinder: shift for five minutes of driving and then fills up with air and won't shift.
Some history:
-Bought the truck in 2012
-Went in for new clutch in 2013, mechanic said some of the gears were scored and recommended a rebuilt transmission. I took his advice and this was a big mistake. Immediately the truck would not shift into gears after about thirty minutes of driving. He replaced the slave cylinder with the transmission swap but not the master cylinder
-I replace the master cylinder, same problems. Won't shift into gear after about thirty minutes of driving
-Take it to the mechanic who did the transmission work and tell him the problem. He says I need a new master cylinder. I try to explain I just replaced it, but he doesn't listen
-He puts in a new master cylinder, same problem
-Take it back to him and also take my 80 year old former mechanic grandfather who tells him to change out the "servo" that runs from the master cylinder to the slave cylinder. The mechanic listens to him and the problem goes away. Finally!
2016 - Give the truck to my brother
2019 - Truck won't shift into gear
-brother changes out the master cylinder; no change
-drops the transmission, changes slave cylinder and clutch; no change
-bench bleeds and gravity bleeds master cylinder; after 5 minutes of driving, won't go into gear
Please tell me someone else has had that problem. My grandfather's memory has totally gone since 2013, so when I ask him what a "servo" between the master and slave cylinder is, he has no idea what I'm talking about. I asked my brother how the master and slave cylinder connect, he said the connected directly.
Any help would be appreciated.
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Through this whole thread, I did not once see any mention of a pilot bearing replacement. That in itself would cause a no-shift issue if it is failing/has failed.
That being said, if you ever ventured up this way, I would fix it for next to nothing. Those trucks are my specialty.
The only thing I can surmise is either the master still isnt bled right, or there is an air leak somewhere which is allowing the system to air back up. It's a very simple system.
__________________
2001.5 2.3 213xxx and counting
M501-HD L154 Manual
Don't bother looking for 1st gear synchros, I bought the last one
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01-20-2020, 08:14 AM
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Ford Ranger Driver
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Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,086
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Re: Manual transmission problem
Two things come to mind. When you depress the clutch pedal, do you feel resistance from the pressure plate springs? You should. If you do not, the problem is likely external, limited to the slave, connecting tubing and master cylinder. There ain't no more parts.
If you do feel resistance, can you put the transmission in gear, engine off, and then start the engine? I have had one clutch stick due to humidity(I think) when I don't drive it for a while. I can put it in gear, and start the engine, and it will sort of 'buck' and then let go, putting things back to normal.
If you can't start the engine, in gear, or you can, but the clutch will not release, then it could be the pilot as mentioned above. The pilot bearing is a needle bearing that would likely make a bit of noise if dry(screech?), and should work if lubed unless it went through its dried-out noise making phase without notice, and now is a bundle of rusty needles...?
If you remove the master cylinder cover, and cycle the clutch pedal, you should see a small port that is opened to the reservoir fluid, and closes off after slight motion of the pedal. The internal piston closes off the port and traps fluid inside, in front of the piston, which then forces the fluid down the line to the slave cylinder, pushes on the slave piston, and moves the clutch fingers. If your slave has a bit of leakage around the piston, it could be drawing air in when the piston is allowed to return to its resting position. Over time, it could potentially accumulate enough air to make the piston motion minimal when the fluid is pushed in from above. The air would compress rather than cause the piston to move, and if you finally get enough, the clutch won't release.
There is no 'servo' involved. The only thing between master and slave is the fluid line. If there is air in the line, it will compress rather than move the slave cylinder piston. In short, if there is no air, the pistons should move in unison. More or less.
tom
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01-20-2020, 12:14 PM
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The EDGE
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 182
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Re: Manual transmission problem
Can the internal slave cylinder be replaced with an external slave cylinder ?
I been told, the best ways to bleed the clutch hydraulic system is with it out of the vehicle or with a pressure bleeder.
The big question is, why does it come back ?
When I had my clutch replaced, I had the clutch bleed twice. I was told they use a pressure bleeder and did it from the bottom up.
I can't argue with them, all I can say is it worked and the clutch has been working good for about 18 months.
Ltr
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01-21-2020, 06:43 PM
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Learning to use the forums
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Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 5
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Re: Manual transmission problem
Quote:
Originally Posted by turismolover22
Through this whole thread, I did not once see any mention of a pilot bearing replacement. That in itself would cause a no-shift issue if it is failing/has failed.
That being said, if you ever ventured up this way, I would fix it for next to nothing. Those trucks are my specialty.
The only thing I can surmise is either the master still isnt bled right, or there is an air leak somewhere which is allowing the system to air back up. It's a very simple system.
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You're right. The pilot bearing was replaced this most recent time, but my brother believes he did not properly seat it. He is about to take the transmission bout again..
__________________
Truck Model: 2003 Ford Ranger 2.3L 4cyl XL Regular Cab
Truck Name: "Murphy" (Yes, as in Murphy's Law)
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01-23-2020, 06:57 PM
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One day at a time
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Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 95
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Re: Manual transmission problem
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomw0
Two things come to mind. When you depress the clutch pedal, do you feel resistance from the pressure plate springs? You should. If you do not, the problem is likely external, limited to the slave, connecting tubing and master cylinder. There ain't no more parts.
If you do feel resistance, can you put the transmission in gear, engine off, and then start the engine? I have had one clutch stick due to humidity(I think) when I don't drive it for a while. I can put it in gear, and start the engine, and it will sort of 'buck' and then let go, putting things back to normal.
If you can't start the engine, in gear, or you can, but the clutch will not release, then it could be the pilot as mentioned above. The pilot bearing is a needle bearing that would likely make a bit of noise if dry(screech?), and should work if lubed unless it went through its dried-out noise making phase without notice, and now is a bundle of rusty needles...?
If you remove the master cylinder cover, and cycle the clutch pedal, you should see a small port that is opened to the reservoir fluid, and closes off after slight motion of the pedal. The internal piston closes off the port and traps fluid inside, in front of the piston, which then forces the fluid down the line to the slave cylinder, pushes on the slave piston, and moves the clutch fingers. If your slave has a bit of leakage around the piston, it could be drawing air in when the piston is allowed to return to its resting position. Over time, it could potentially accumulate enough air to make the piston motion minimal when the fluid is pushed in from above. The air would compress rather than cause the piston to move, and if you finally get enough, the clutch won't release.
There is no 'servo' involved. The only thing between master and slave is the fluid line. If there is air in the line, it will compress rather than move the slave cylinder piston. In short, if there is no air, the pistons should move in unison. More or less.
tom
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Two things, the first bing that the slave could be defective. I installed an aftermarket unit after my stock one failed around 150k. The new unit had a crack in the base, and wouldn't bleed out.
Second, the master uses a remote reservoir, so you would never see the master open/close when the rod is depressed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrambler82
Can the internal slave cylinder be replaced with an external slave cylinder ?
I been told, the best ways to bleed the clutch hydraulic system is with it out of the vehicle or with a pressure bleeder.
The big question is, why does it come back ?
When I had my clutch replaced, I had the clutch bleed twice. I was told they use a pressure bleeder and did it from the bottom up.
I can't argue with them, all I can say is it worked and the clutch has been working good for about 18 months.
Ltr
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You cannot replace it with an external, short of completely redesigning the bellhousing. I cannot physically bleed mine outside of the truck, and have to bleed it while it is all hooked up in the truck. You don't need a pressure bleeder, at all. Just a helpful friend and about 3 minutes of your time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gussie003
You're right. The pilot bearing was replaced this most recent time, but my brother believes he did not properly seat it. He is about to take the transmission bout again..
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If you send the trans my way I would inspect it for free, though I suspect it is an issue with the clutch slave/master and their relationship. I bleed my master and slave as one, while on the truck. Seeing as how the parts have been swapped over many times before, I'm going to assume there is just an issue with how the system is being bled, or the other possible culprit, an install issue with the clutch itself. Is it possible that its just a defective unit? If the pressure plate diaphragm isn't releasing properly (even with proper throw) or the friction disc is questionable, both those could cause enough drag to make shifting impossible.
__________________
2001.5 2.3 213xxx and counting
M501-HD L154 Manual
Don't bother looking for 1st gear synchros, I bought the last one
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