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Old 06-23-2019, 06:57 AM
hat_man hat_man is offline
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Default 23# fuel injectors

Has anyone tried running 23# fuel injectors on a 2002+ Duratec?

Logic says it would run rich, but wouldn't the O2 sensors and the ECU compensate (maybe only up to a point) to bring the AFR back in line? I'm sure it could all be worked out with a "tune", but why pay the money if the ECU can compensate?

There are some 12 hole injectors out there that are a direct swap for the stock 4 hole ones in the 2.3. Better spray pattern and atomization, but if the ECU can't adjust and they run rich then it's not going to work without a tune. Or at least some ECU calibration that is way above my understanding.

We did find some 12 hole GM injectors that will fit correctly into the port, but they are physically shorter and the fuel rail mounts won't work. I'd rather have it mounted to something solid and not floating on top of the injectors.

Any thoughts?
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Little Black Ranger: R.I.P Born-1997 Died-2018. 297k miles of good times. You will be missed.

Oh Deer: 2003 XL 2.3L 5-speed stick w/OD. Current mods: Body work after hitting a deer 12 hours after I bought it. Averaging 32 MPG on the highway.
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  #2  
Old 06-23-2019, 10:51 AM
Dirtman Dirtman is offline
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Default Re: 23# fuel injectors

Yes, the computer would just reduce the pulse width and throw a P0172 code. It would accomplish absolutely nothing except having a constant check engine light. There would be zero performance advantage. The only reason you would need or get any power gain with higher pressure injectors is if you increased the amount of air going in. I.e turbo or supercharging.
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Old 06-23-2019, 12:48 PM
hat_man hat_man is offline
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Default Re: 23# fuel injectors

Wasn't looking so much for a power adder. Was hoping for a more complete burn from better atomization.

If the ECU brings it back to near 14.7:1 wouldn't that clear the code?

Way above my knowledge base.
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Little Black Ranger: R.I.P Born-1997 Died-2018. 297k miles of good times. You will be missed.

Oh Deer: 2003 XL 2.3L 5-speed stick w/OD. Current mods: Body work after hitting a deer 12 hours after I bought it. Averaging 32 MPG on the highway.
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Old 06-23-2019, 12:59 PM
Dirtman Dirtman is offline
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Default Re: 23# fuel injectors

No, the computer has set parameters (open loop mode runs 100% on software and not sensors) once the computer goes into closed loop it uses the sensors but only allows a certain amount of correction to the fuel trim before setting a DTC.

If your MAF sensor is saying X amount of air is entering the engine, and the computer knows the engine parameters it knows how long to open the fuel injector for a proper fuel air ratio. The o2 sensor reads the exhaust gas to confirm the combustion was the correct ratio. With larger fuel injectors the computer will see too much fuel on the o2 sensor side and adjust the fuel trim by shortening the pulse width, BUT it knows it should not need to be doing this and therefore thinks something is wrong, hence it turns on the CEL.

"Tuning" could fix this by changing the software so the computer now understands it has larger injectors. But your would literally be paying hundreds upon hundreds of dollars for something that would show maybe a 1% increase in efficency.
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Old 06-23-2019, 01:46 PM
hat_man hat_man is offline
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Default Re: 23# fuel injectors

Thanks. I'm understanding it a little better know. I was assuming the O2 set the afr but it's more of a confirmation then. The mix could actually be within parameters but only because the ECU had to make a correction. It knows it shouldn't have to make that correction and throws the code. Makes sense.

Closed loop would be WOT and not a place you'd be if your looking for efficiency anyhow.

----------

Wait. That's backwards. Closed loop is partial throttle and the sensors are in play. So at cruising speed, you'd be in closed loop and the sensors would set the afr. Still getting a CEL from the ECU making corrections though. I think that's the right way round.
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Little Black Ranger: R.I.P Born-1997 Died-2018. 297k miles of good times. You will be missed.

Oh Deer: 2003 XL 2.3L 5-speed stick w/OD. Current mods: Body work after hitting a deer 12 hours after I bought it. Averaging 32 MPG on the highway.
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  #6  
Old 06-23-2019, 02:08 PM
Dirtman Dirtman is offline
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Default Re: 23# fuel injectors

You got that backwards. Closed loop mode is when the ecu is relying on all the sensor data to manage the fuel trims which is 99% of the time.

Open loop is only used on startup until the o2 sensors heat up enough to work, and at WOT. This is where the ECU is working soley on pre-programmed parameters in the software.
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