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  #1  
Old 04-22-2019, 05:19 PM
CP30 CP30 is offline
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Default Starter Gear Spinnning, Solenoid Popping Out, But Not Engaging Flywheel

2003 Ford Ranger 2WD 2.3L 310K miles

When I turned the ignition on all you could hear was the starter gear spinning. I got a brand new starter cause I thought the solenoid was bad in the old one and now I'm getting the SAME THING on the brand new starter. So, to check the NEW starter I hooked up the new starter outside the vehicle and got my son to turn the engine over to see if the solenoid was popping out and IT IS popping out and the gear IS spinning. The flywheel teeth look perfect. Battery is only a year or two old. Can't think of what it could be. Starter is working just like it's supposed to. Makes no sense. I can jump start the vehicle fine by pushing the vehicle and throwing it into gear with the ignition in the on position. Starts right up

Last edited by CP30; 04-22-2019 at 06:51 PM.
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  #2  
Old 04-23-2019, 06:52 AM
dvrich dvrich is offline
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Default Re: Starter Spinnning, Solenoid Popping Out, But Not Engaging Flywheel

I don't know how you could possibly think the solenoid was bad since all it does is supply power to the starter motor. Since the motor was spinning, the solenoid is good.
Buying POS generic starters most likely is the problem since you stated the flywheel teeth look fine.
Chinese food is OK but auto parts....NO.
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Last edited by dvrich; 04-23-2019 at 06:55 AM.
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  #3  
Old 04-23-2019, 09:13 AM
Ordinary Biker Ordinary Biker is offline
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Default Re: Starter Spinnning, Solenoid Popping Out, But Not Engaging Flywheel

Solenoid is a relay that sends power to the starter when you turn the key to 'start' The bendix is what causes the starter gear to slide out into the 'engaged with flywheel' position when the starter motor turns.
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Old 04-23-2019, 11:37 AM
Dirtman Dirtman is offline
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Default Re: Starter Spinnning, Solenoid Popping Out, But Not Engaging Flywheel

When you say "new starter" do you really mean you bought one at a discount auto parts store (aka autozone, advanced, napa)?

Those aren't new....
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Old 04-23-2019, 05:38 PM
dvrich dvrich is offline
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Default Re: Starter Spinnning, Solenoid Popping Out, But Not Engaging Flywheel

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirtman View Post
When you say "new starter" do you really mean you bought one at a discount auto parts store (aka autozone, advanced, napa)?

Those aren't new....
Manufactured by $3 an hour child labor. As long as China makes their own missiles and nuclear warheads we shouldn't worry.
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Old 04-23-2019, 06:37 PM
CP30 CP30 is offline
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Default Re: Starter Spinnning, Solenoid Popping Out, But Not Engaging Flywheel

Quote:
Originally Posted by dvrich View Post
I don't know how you could possibly think the solenoid was bad since all it does is supply power to the starter motor. Since the motor was spinning, the solenoid is good.
Buying POS generic starters most likely is the problem since you stated the flywheel teeth look fine.
Chinese food is OK but auto parts....NO.
Did you even read my original post before you popped off with your completely useless reply? I said I tested the new starter and the gear is spinning and it’s popping out like it’s supposed to. And it doesn’t matter if it’s a reman or “brand new manufactured”. It’s working properly. That’s the important info. Go buy your parts at a dealership for triple the cost like a smart boy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ordinary Biker View Post
Solenoid is a relay that sends power to the starter when you turn the key to 'start' The bendix is what causes the starter gear to slide out into the 'engaged with flywheel' position when the starter motor turns.
Useful information for future reference.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirtman View Post
When you say "new starter" do you really mean you bought one at a discount auto parts store (aka autozone, advanced, napa)?

Those aren't new....
For crying out loud it’s working properly. I tested it. What difference does it make if it’s a reman. No help.

Starter working properly. Not engaging flywheel. / “maybe you should take some measurements and see if it needs to be shimmed up” or maybe “you should check the voltage at the positive post on the starter and see if there is voltage drop”. Something similar to those I would consider useful comments.

_

Last edited by CP30; 04-23-2019 at 08:03 PM.
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  #7  
Old 04-24-2019, 05:25 AM
tomw0 tomw0 is offline
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Default Re: Starter Spinnning, Solenoid Popping Out, But Not Engaging Flywheel

It is possible that the solenoid atop the starter is not 'throwing' the Bendix drive(the part with the small gear, built-in overrun clutch, and spiral 'thrower') is not extending enough to engage the teeth(obviously it is not engaging, but is it working to the correct spec?).
You may be able to work the solenoid manually, and extend the gear, and measure where the gears end up. Take that measurement and apply to see if the gears would engage when installed.
I would check the face of the ring gear teeth for damage. The solenoid is supposed to extend the gear, via relay command, and once extended, close the big switch internally to send amps to the starter motor windings. Power should not be applied until the teeth are engaged. It could be your solenoid is incorrect, or the switch at the end needs to be adjusted so it delays power until the teeth are engaged.
Operating the solenoid manually, to check when the internal switch closes, with no battery power connected, should result in infinite ohms until the solenoid is fully extended. I don't remember if older solenoids had adjustments...
I would return to the vendor if the solenoid applies power too soon, AND if the gears are incorrect, short, or the solenoid doesn't extend them far enough. It is all pretty simple stuff, but has to work together.
tom
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Old 04-24-2019, 09:21 AM
dvrich dvrich is offline
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Default Re: Starter Spinnning, Solenoid Popping Out, But Not Engaging Flywheel

Quote:
Originally Posted by CP30 View Post
Did you even read my original post before you popped off with your completely useless reply? I said I tested the new starter and the gear is spinning and it’s popping out like it’s supposed to. And it doesn’t matter if it’s a reman or “brand new manufactured”. It’s working properly. That’s the important info. Go buy your parts at a dealership for triple the cost like a smart boy.



Useful information for future reference.



For crying out loud it’s working properly. I tested it. What difference does it make if it’s a reman. No help.

Starter working properly. Not engaging flywheel. / “maybe you should take some measurements and see if it needs to be shimmed up” or maybe “you should check the voltage at the positive post on the starter and see if there is voltage drop”. Something similar to those I would consider useful comments.

_

If the flywheel looks perfect then WTF else could it be other than the starter????????? Ask your mommy and daddy for more money to buy an OEM starter and purchase it on Rock Auto.
You obviously aren't too bright.
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Old 04-24-2019, 09:45 AM
CP30 CP30 is offline
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Default Re: Starter Spinnning, Solenoid Popping Out, But Not Engaging Flywheel

Quote:
Originally Posted by dvrich View Post
If the flywheel looks perfect then WTF else could it be other than the starter????????? Ask your mommy and daddy for more money to buy an OEM starter and purchase it on Rock Auto.
You obviously aren't too bright.
The starter is working properly and the flywheel is ok. You're not an expert on ignition (obviously) and neither am I. But it could be something other than the starter or flywheel and actually is something other than the starter or flywheel because I figured it out.

BTW, I'm familiar with Rock Auto and have bought a few parts from them before, when I'm not in a hurry and have time to wait for parts to be shipped to me. Which is all totally inconsequential seeing how the starter is working properly for the MILLIONTH time.

I'm 55 years old and own my own home and have a 22 year old son. I bought this car from my father in 2008 when it had only 33,000 miles on it. It now has 310,890 miles on it and I've only ever taken this thing to a mechanic for state inspections and to have new tires put on it (don't own a tire changer or a balancer). Every problem that's ever come up on this truck in 11 years and 277,890 miles I figured out myself and fixed it myself. And that's a lot of problems and repairs. I can jack this thing up, drop the transmission, replace the clutch and bolt the transmission back on in only a matter a few hours all by myself with no help whatsoever. I drive this truck hard. I been using it for a delivery vehicle for the last 11 years.

BTW, how old are you son?
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  #10  
Old 04-24-2019, 10:28 AM
CP30 CP30 is offline
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Default Re: Starter Spinnning, Solenoid Popping Out, But Not Engaging Flywheel

So I figured out the problem. Here are the clues that led me to the solution.

1. I've been using the vehicle for a delivery vehicle for the last 11 years. Constantly starting and turning off the car. And inserting the key in the ignition and pulling it back out thousands of times over 11 years. Lots and lots of key wear.

2. About a month ago while I was driving down the road I accidentally hit the key ring with my knee and the key completely fell out of the ignition switch while I was driving but the engine kept running with the key out. I could pull the key out with the vehicle running.

3. Today I had to take a delivery for a second employer and before I did that I went to get some gas and I left the engine running. I have to bump start the truck to get it started so I didn't want to shut off the truck at the gas station so I left the engine running and took the key out while it was running. After I filled up and took off, just a little down the road the engine shut down. I looked down and saw I forgot to put the key back in the ignition switch and so I hurried up and put it back in the switch and I was going down hill luckily and so I just put it in gear and popped the clutch on it and it started back up.

So apparently there's a little latch in the ignition switch that sends a signal that the key is either in or out of the ignition. Then I thought about how worn out that original key was and wondered if I used my spare key that I had made about 7-8 years ago (that I never use) that it would some how make a difference and start the truck because it has sharp lands on it and should trip the detection pin and the ECU will detect the key in the ignition. It's basically a brand new key. Sure enough, I turned the ignition and the starter turned the flywheel and started the truck right up.

Not exactly sure of the details of why the worn key would still make the starter gear turn and pop out but not catch the flywheel and turn the engine over other than the ECU is not detecting a key in the ignition. I still don't know the minute details. I'm not an ignition tech. The spare (new) key is turning the engine over and starting it so I'm back up and running. And I was getting ready to drop the transmission in an attempt to see what was going on at the starter-gear-flywheel intersection

If you look at the tip of the old key there looks to be about 1/16” of metal worn off compared to the new key. I think there is a pin in the center of the key cylinder that the tip of the key is supposed to push in that sends a signal to the ECU/ECM that the key is in the cylinder.

Last edited by CP30; 04-25-2019 at 11:07 AM.
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