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Old 08-14-2018, 09:24 AM
RoberticusMaximus RoberticusMaximus is offline
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Default Not sure if knock or misfire or both?

Hi guys! I'm posting this question for my uncle. I only got to see it for a couple minutes, so bare with me please! I don't know much about the newer duratec 2.3, and i didn't find anything fitting while searching the forum, or google for that matter.

2009 2.3L duratec XL, auto trans, either 180k or 190k miles...

symptoms:

-knocking sound on cold startup, knocks til it starts to warm up a bit. I even heard it knock for about half a second on a lukewarm startup.

-at about 2500 rpms (light or no load on engine) it starts the exact same knocking sound. and when it begins knocking, it misfires. so basically, it knocks briefly then misfires & stops knocking immediately, then knocks briefly then misfires & stops knocking... over and over again at & above 2500rpm.

I will say that the knocking sound is more clearly heard from the driver's side. not that it helps lol! What yall think? confusing us cause i wouldn't think that a rod knock and detonation would make the exact same sound lol

Last edited by RoberticusMaximus; 08-14-2018 at 09:27 AM.
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Old 08-14-2018, 09:27 AM
djfllmn djfllmn is offline
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Default Re: Not sure if knock or misfire or both?

i would say that motor is on its way out
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Old 08-14-2018, 09:29 AM
RoberticusMaximus RoberticusMaximus is offline
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Default Re: Not sure if knock or misfire or both?

hi dj!
do you know if can you do the bottom end by removing the oil pan, or do you gotta pull motor out?
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Old 08-14-2018, 09:34 AM
djfllmn djfllmn is offline
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Default Re: Not sure if knock or misfire or both?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoberticusMaximus View Post
hi dj!
do you know if can you do the bottom end by removing the oil pan, or do you gotta pull motor out?
i do know from ford they do not service anything in the bottom end on the 2.3, short block or long block only
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Old 08-14-2018, 09:36 AM
RoberticusMaximus RoberticusMaximus is offline
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Default Re: Not sure if knock or misfire or both?

blehhhhh lol, so you think its bottom end?
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Old 08-14-2018, 09:41 AM
djfllmn djfllmn is offline
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Default Re: Not sure if knock or misfire or both?

i have a pretty good guess that is what it would be
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Old 08-14-2018, 09:48 AM
RoberticusMaximus RoberticusMaximus is offline
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Default Re: Not sure if knock or misfire or both?

so is there a knock sensor that might be sensing a rod knock pulse and altering timing, making it sound like a misfire? might that be what we were hearing at around 2500rpm?
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Old 08-14-2018, 09:50 AM
djfllmn djfllmn is offline
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Default Re: Not sure if knock or misfire or both?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoberticusMaximus View Post
so is there a knock sensor that might be sensing a rod knock pulse and altering timing, making it sound like a misfire? might that be what we were hearing at around 2500rpm?
possible, or that cylinder is losing compression
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Old 08-14-2018, 09:53 AM
RoberticusMaximus RoberticusMaximus is offline
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Default Re: Not sure if knock or misfire or both?

you think that would that be just a coincidence, or cause and effect?
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Old 08-14-2018, 12:55 PM
Dirtman Dirtman is offline
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Default Re: Not sure if knock or misfire or both?

The 2.3 duratec does have knock sensor but what you are describing sounds like a rod knock (worn rod bearings). The knock sensor detects pre-detenation knock which is a completely different monster. When functioning correctly the knock sensor would never allow pre-detenation to happen for more than a fraction of a second and would be completely un-noticeable to you, the timing change is seemless and doesn't happen constantly. If the knock sensor was malfunctioning or pulling timing too much you would have a CEL before actually noticing a physical symptom. Plus the knock sensor is more of an emergency back up device than an actively functioning part of normal engine operations.

However be advised duratecs are notoriously noisy engines. While what you describe does sound like bad rod bearings, its hard to diagnose noises over the internet so I wouldn't just throw in the towel until you get someone skilled to check it out in person.

Last edited by Dirtman; 08-14-2018 at 12:58 PM.
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Old 08-14-2018, 01:16 PM
RoberticusMaximus RoberticusMaximus is offline
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Default Re: Not sure if knock or misfire or both?

thanks! imma hafta grab a video next time im down his way, would be easier lol
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Old 08-15-2018, 05:32 AM
tomw0 tomw0 is offline
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Default Re: Not sure if knock or misfire or both?

You might want to look into 'intake manfold runner flap' type noise. The duratec (some) had a vacuum operated flap that changed the intake runner length at specific rpms. When it failed, it made nasty noises that sounded as if it was on its way out.
Disconnecting the vacuum line made the noise go away.
I would want to know oil pressure, cold at idle, hot at idle and hot at 3k rpms. Using a mechanical gauge.
You could be hearing cam noise if something was sticking and freeing up at 'harmonics' of rpm.
To check the misfire, use a timing light to see if spark is going away, and/or use a stethescope(or length of vacuum line held to a convenient ear) to listen to the injectors clack(use the hose and you'll hear the CLACK) come and go, or be 'regular'.
Report.
tom

Oh, when making noise, if you disconnect the injector and the noise goes away, then you may more likely have a rod or wrist pin rattle/knock.
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Old 08-15-2018, 07:15 AM
RoberticusMaximus RoberticusMaximus is offline
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Default Re: Not sure if knock or misfire or both?

ah yes, i forget about the intake mani runner thing! i'm passing this along to my uncle, i bet he'll be checking that first lol, thanks!
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Old 08-15-2018, 10:20 AM
Dirtman Dirtman is offline
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Default Re: Not sure if knock or misfire or both?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomw0 View Post
You might want to look into 'intake manfold runner flap' type noise. The duratec (some) had a vacuum operated flap that changed the intake runner length at specific rpms. When it failed, it made nasty noises that sounded as if it was on its way out.
Disconnecting the vacuum line made the noise go away.
I would want to know oil pressure, cold at idle, hot at idle and hot at 3k rpms. Using a mechanical gauge.
You could be hearing cam noise if something was sticking and freeing up at 'harmonics' of rpm.
To check the misfire, use a timing light to see if spark is going away, and/or use a stethescope(or length of vacuum line held to a convenient ear) to listen to the injectors clack(use the hose and you'll hear the CLACK) come and go, or be 'regular'.
Report.
tom

Oh, when making noise, if you disconnect the injector and the noise goes away, then you may more likely have a rod or wrist pin rattle/knock.
The IMRC system was discontinued in 2004. No intake runner flaps on a 2009.
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  #15  
Old 08-15-2018, 10:59 AM
RoberticusMaximus RoberticusMaximus is offline
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Default Re: Not sure if knock or misfire or both?

oo, i better text him again lol
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