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  #1  
Old 08-06-2018, 06:57 PM
450thumper 450thumper is offline
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Default What could cause this misfire

No engine codes, not sure why. But when i first start my truck it wants ro misfire for a few minutes. Once its warm its fine. 96 2.3l 5 speed. Truck runs like a top but now its just on cold starts it wants to fall on its face and mis out. Ive done plugs and wires on it like 10k miles ago.

Any ideas or advice where to start? Ivr ran some seafoam before through tank and vacum line.
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Old 08-06-2018, 08:33 PM
Undrstm8ed Undrstm8ed is offline
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Default Re: What could cause this misfire

My first question would be the obvious ~ what plugs and wires, and what gap is used and have you pulled the plugs to check them for engine conditions? If not you should and take pics of them numbered to the engine cyl and post them for more advice.

Second, and a bit backyard redneck mechanic like but.. try getting a spray can of starter fluid. Start up the truck, spray (NOT hose down) near and around the I/M gaskets, T/B and vacuum lines. If the engine RPM's rise or falls to the point of stalling you have an intake leak. Could be a slight one to where when cold the gap exists, when the engine warms up the offending component is under heat expansion and half ass seals itself until it cools down and the process begins all over again.

A lot of times these lil things people kind of "wig-out" on so to speak are really things that even a good mechanic would tell you (s)he needs to see and hear it in person. Many times the forums will have a metric shit ton of monitor-mechanics throwing all sorts of wild suggestions which often amounts to throwing parts at the vehicle until it fixes itself.. which isn't properly diagnosing a problem, its the aforementioned.
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  #3  
Old 08-07-2018, 06:25 AM
tomw0 tomw0 is offline
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Default Re: What could cause this misfire

Could it be the coolant and air temperature sensors used by the computer to tune the fuel:air mix for a cold engine are sending bogus temperatures? Does the IAC increase idle speed when the engine is cold, and step the idle down as the engine warms?
I'd also check that all vacuum lines are securely in place. A leaky connection would lean out the mix causing unstable cold idle.
tom
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  #4  
Old 08-07-2018, 09:28 AM
450thumper 450thumper is offline
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Default Re: What could cause this misfire

Quote:
Originally Posted by Undrstm8ed View Post
My first question would be the obvious ~ what plugs and wires, and what gap is used and have you pulled the plugs to check them for engine conditions? If not you should and take pics of them numbered to the engine cyl and post them for more advice.

Second, and a bit backyard redneck mechanic like but.. try getting a spray can of starter fluid. Start up the truck, spray (NOT hose down) near and around the I/M gaskets, T/B and vacuum lines. If the engine RPM's rise or falls to the point of stalling you have an intake leak. Could be a slight one to where when cold the gap exists, when the engine warms up the offending component is under heat expansion and half ass seals itself until it cools down and the process begins all over again.

A lot of times these lil things people kind of "wig-out" on so to speak are really things that even a good mechanic would tell you (s)he needs to see and hear it in person. Many times the forums will have a metric shit ton of monitor-mechanics throwing all sorts of wild suggestions which often amounts to throwing parts at the vehicle until it fixes itself.. which isn't properly diagnosing a problem, its the aforementioned.
Great advice man! Thank you for that, i put motocraft wires and plugs in it. Ill have to pull them and see how they are looking. Ill also check for intake manifold leaks and vacuum. Thanks again, will reply once i finish that diagnosis.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomw0 View Post
Could it be the coolant and air temperature sensors used by the computer to tune the fuel:air mix for a cold engine are sending bogus temperatures? Does the IAC increase idle speed when the engine is cold, and step the idle down as the engine warms?
I'd also check that all vacuum lines are securely in place. A leaky connection would lean out the mix causing unstable cold idle.
tom
When its cold the rpms do ramp up then lower once warm. Its only when the motor is cold and lower rpms when it wants to miss out. If i keep it piped up its alright. When i have the ac running the rpms at idle will be higher too. That normal right?

There was a vac hose going to a box on the driverside of engine bay that was connected to a solenoid that was clicking real bad like 6 months ago so I disconnected it and plugged it. Figured it was emission junk so it wouldnt hurt to delete it. Anyone have any idea what im talking about? And whats it for.
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Old 08-07-2018, 01:41 PM
RoberticusMaximus RoberticusMaximus is offline
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Default Re: What could cause this misfire

if you could snap a pic of that solenoid you're talking about, i'm certainly curious lol
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Old 08-08-2018, 12:00 AM
Undrstm8ed Undrstm8ed is offline
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Default Re: What could cause this misfire

Quote:
Originally Posted by 450thumper View Post
Great advice man! Thank you for that, i put motocraft wires and plugs in it. Ill have to pull them and see how they are looking. Ill also check for intake manifold leaks and vacuum. Thanks again, will reply once i finish that diagnosis.

----------



When its cold the rpms do ramp up then lower once warm. Its only when the motor is cold and lower rpms when it wants to miss out. If i keep it piped up its alright. When i have the ac running the rpms at idle will be higher too. That normal right?

There was a vac hose going to a box on the driverside of engine bay that was connected to a solenoid that was clicking real bad like 6 months ago so I disconnected it and plugged it. Figured it was emission junk so it wouldnt hurt to delete it. Anyone have any idea what im talking about? And whats it for.
If its cooler weather or even overnight late day start up thats the closed loop operation so it adjust A/F (air & fuel) to warm the vehicle up faster before you drive away, you'll tend to waste a bit of fuel when its cold like that and you drive off. My ex was notorious for turning the key and already having the car in drive before the IGN switch spring'd back to the RUN position.. The head hadn't even see oil pressure yet and shes already backing out of the driveway... AC idle raise is proper too, thats the job of the IAC (Idle Air Control-valve).

The solenoid you're referring to was near and slightly under the battery was it not? That is the Purge canister solenoid. It pulls gases from the fuel tank and is partially emissions related but should be being used. Our trucks 93-97 actually have a fuel return line and that is a little necessary. If it was some of the newer Fords where they DON'T have a fuel return line it's a slightly different setup and in some cases would lean towards a CEL at the very least, Limp mode often in others.

You should see if the problem can be corrected by fixing the damaged hoses and fixing the issue.
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Old 08-08-2018, 05:42 AM
450thumper 450thumper is offline
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Default Re: What could cause this misfire

Quote:
Originally Posted by Undrstm8ed View Post
If its cooler weather or even overnight late day start up thats the closed loop operation so it adjust A/F (air & fuel) to warm the vehicle up faster before you drive away, you'll tend to waste a bit of fuel when its cold like that and you drive off. My ex was notorious for turning the key and already having the car in drive before the IGN switch spring'd back to the RUN position.. The head hadn't even see oil pressure yet and shes already backing out of the driveway... AC idle raise is proper too, thats the job of the IAC (Idle Air Control-valve).

The solenoid you're referring to was near and slightly under the battery was it not? That is the Purge canister solenoid. It pulls gases from the fuel tank and is partially emissions related but should be being used. Our trucks 93-97 actually have a fuel return line and that is a little necessary. If it was some of the newer Fords where they DON'T have a fuel return line it's a slightly different setup and in some cases would lean towards a CEL at the very least, Limp mode often in others.

You should see if the problem can be corrected by fixing the damaged hoses and fixing the issue.
Ok yes the solenoid was slighty under the battery it was all rusted up and non fuctionion and it was clicking really bad so I removed it and plugged the line, do you think that is the cause to my mis when cold?

The truck idles fine and smooth when its cold it just when i go to take off and put the motor under a load. It misses out bad. Used to not do that. I always let the truck run at least 30 sec and build oil pressure before taking off.
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  #8  
Old 08-08-2018, 07:36 PM
Undrstm8ed Undrstm8ed is offline
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Default Re: What could cause this misfire

Quote:
Originally Posted by 450thumper View Post
Ok yes the solenoid was slighty under the battery it was all rusted up and non fuctionion and it was clicking really bad so I removed it and plugged the line, do you think that is the cause to my mis when cold?

The truck idles fine and smooth when its cold it just when i go to take off and put the motor under a load. It misses out bad. Used to not do that. I always let the truck run at least 30 sec and build oil pressure before taking off.
No the solenoid has little to do with your issue. That would either be plugs, ignition, vacuum, or injector issues more.
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  #9  
Old 08-08-2018, 08:03 PM
450thumper 450thumper is offline
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Default Re: What could cause this misfire

Quote:
Originally Posted by Undrstm8ed View Post
No the solenoid has little to do with your issue. That would either be plugs, ignition, vacuum, or injector issues more.
Ok, thank you so much for your time and knowledge! Im going to try a few things see if i cant get this narrowed down some more. Ive done the plugs and wires, motorcraft. Is it possible for the coil pack to run intermittent when cold? Or at all? Or do they either just work or not work correctly? Thanks
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Old 08-10-2018, 01:12 PM
modelageek modelageek is offline
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Default Re: What could cause this misfire

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomw0 View Post
Could it be the coolant and air temperature sensors used by the computer to tune the fuel:air mix for a cold engine are sending bogus temperatures? Does the IAC increase idle speed when the engine is cold, and step the idle down as the engine warms?
I'd also check that all vacuum lines are securely in place. A leaky connection would lean out the mix causing unstable cold idle.
tom
I'm with Tom on the coolant temp sensor. When truck is first started it runs in open loop and only a few sensors are used. The Coolant temp sensor is one of them. If you can get Torque working you can check the ECT and the AIT in the morning at a cold start after sitting. They both should read about the same(whatever outside temp is) the part is cheap and easy to replace.



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Old 08-10-2018, 08:59 PM
450thumper 450thumper is offline
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Default Re: What could cause this misfire

Quote:
Originally Posted by modelageek View Post
I'm with Tom on the coolant temp sensor. When truck is first started it runs in open loop and only a few sensors are used. The Coolant temp sensor is one of them. If you can get Torque working you can check the ECT and the AIT in the morning at a cold start after sitting. They both should read about the same(whatever outside temp is) the part is cheap and easy to replace.



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Ok im back, soni had a few codes ran ill post the pics if it lets me. The coolant temperature sensor was removed awhile ago because it now has mechanical gauges in it. Could that be an issue?

My truck doest really ramp up idle on cold starts, i want to say occasionally it does. How do i check and what is the ECT and AIT ?

Ill also post a picture of the solenoid i removed along time ago due to failing, just plugged the line going to emissions box under battery. Surely this cant be an issue.

Let me know if pictures come through! Should have 5 pics of codes i pulled today.










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Old 08-14-2018, 07:24 PM
450thumper 450thumper is offline
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Default Re: What could cause this misfire

No one?
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Old 08-15-2018, 05:41 AM
tomw0 tomw0 is offline
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Default Re: What could cause this misfire

There is something wrong with this web site. I regularly check for 'new' posts, even on weekends, and did not see this one. If a post is not flagged(little tag next to the post) I do not look further.
That said... The first two pics indicate the DPFE or the hoses are not working properly. The DPFE senses pressure within the EGR tube on both sides of a metering orifice. It diddles with the signal it sends to the computer based on 'flow' or 'no flow'... in this case it appears to be sending the computer some really mixed signals.
The following, I would check the O2 sensor wiring, the sensor, the heater volts, and based on the O2 sensor age, consider replacing it.
The p0443... I dunno, but would check that the evaporative system hoses are connected and intact.
The coolant has two sensors, one for the cluster and one for the computer. The second may actually be cylinder head temperature. If you swapped out the first for an accessory gauge, the second should still be functional.
ECT - engine coolant temperature.
AIT - air intake temp ( I knew as ACT - air charge temperature ... maybe)

Those two sensors/senders inform the computer whether it's cold outside and how cool the engine is. Use to make the mix richer for cold start, higher cold idle, etc. Just like a choke on a carb.
tom
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Old 08-15-2018, 05:59 AM
kdsilvestri kdsilvestri is offline
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Default Re: What could cause this misfire

Check the coils. Replaced mine, cheap repair, and the Ranger is running significantly better.
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  #15  
Old 08-15-2018, 07:17 AM
RoberticusMaximus RoberticusMaximus is offline
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Default Re: What could cause this misfire

the O2 sensor and the DPFE hoses are relatively close to one another, wonder if a mouse went to town on those hoses and the wires for the O2 lol
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