Ford Ranger Forum - Forums for Ford Ranger enthusiasts!

Go Back   Ford Ranger Forum - Forums for Ford Ranger enthusiasts! > >
Forgot Password? Join Us!

Welcome to Ford Ranger Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread

  #1  
Old 03-27-2018, 10:02 PM
wh23g3g wh23g3g is offline
Like the Forums
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 44
Default Is it possible to change oil pan gasket without removing engine?

So Ford says to remove the engine to replace the oil pan gasket on all their Ranger engines. Can it be done to the 2.5 without removing the engine? It's starting to get wet fairly well on the passenger side of the oil pan. Engine probably has 200,000 on it. It's now running good so I'm on to the next possible repair. The mechanic I usually go to is pretty handy and says he can likely do it. But I'm not sure it would be possible because of the crossmember.
__________________
1998 Ford Ranger XLT 2.5 4R44E Automatic Regular Cab, 4.10 non-limited slip, only modification is a Dynomax muffler.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 03-27-2018, 10:14 PM
LittleJacy LittleJacy is offline
Learning to use the forums
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 5
Default Re: Is it possible to change oil pan gasket without removing engine?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wh23g3g View Post
So Ford says to remove the engine to replace the oil pan gasket on all their Ranger engines. Can it be done to the 2.5 without removing the engine? It's starting to get wet fairly well on the passenger side of the oil pan. Engine probably has 200,000 on it. It's now running good so I'm on to the next possible repair. The mechanic I usually go to is pretty handy and says he can likely do it. But I'm not sure it would be possible because of the crossmember.
Having just completely rebuilt my '98 2.5: I've got to say no. That is one DEEP sump on that engine.

Sent from my LG-LS993 using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 03-29-2018, 08:59 PM
wh23g3g wh23g3g is offline
Like the Forums
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 44
Default Re: Is it possible to change oil pan gasket without removing engine?

How bad was that rebuild on a 2.5? I've only done a Dodge Charger 400 B-block rebuild minus heads which were rebuilt by machine shop, removing the connecting rods from the pistons, I also had the machine shop install the cam bearings and cam. Everything else I did. I did do everything though new rings, bearings, seals, screen, timing set, assembly. It's a little different than the 2.5 but I was wondering how difficult it would compare to. Because if it goes out I see remanufactured 2.5's are more than the 3.0 or 4.0's. I'm not sure it would be worth having my general mechanic yank it just to change the oil pan gasket. Although, tt probably wouldn't hurt to have rear seal and an oil pump put in either. I just remember my original 2.5 that I had quit at 228,000 while on vacation in the 3 degree weather in Kentucky. It was well taken care of too, the oil clearances were causing erratic oil pressure and spun a bearing. So this used 2000 2.5 was installed which now probably has 200,000 miles. Would there be anyway to tell potentially how long the engine would go without any bearing problems if it was out with the oil pan off?
__________________
1998 Ford Ranger XLT 2.5 4R44E Automatic Regular Cab, 4.10 non-limited slip, only modification is a Dynomax muffler.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 03-29-2018, 09:33 PM
LittleJacy LittleJacy is offline
Learning to use the forums
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 5
Default Re: Is it possible to change oil pan gasket without removing engine?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wh23g3g View Post
How bad was that rebuild on a 2.5? I've only done a Dodge Charger 400 B-block rebuild minus heads which were rebuilt by machine shop, removing the connecting rods from the pistons, I also had the machine shop install the cam bearings and cam. Everything else I did. I did do everything though new rings, bearings, seals, screen, timing set, assembly. It's a little different than the 2.5 but I was wondering how difficult it would compare to. Because if it goes out I see remanufactured 2.5's are more than the 3.0 or 4.0's. I'm not sure it would be worth having my general mechanic yank it just to change the oil pan gasket. Although, tt probably wouldn't hurt to have rear seal and an oil pump put in either. I just remember my original 2.5 that I had quit at 228,000 while on vacation in the 3 degree weather in Kentucky. It was well taken care of too, the oil clearances were causing erratic oil pressure and spun a bearing. So this used 2000 2.5 was installed which now probably has 200,000 miles. Would there be anyway to tell potentially how long the engine would go without any bearing problems if it was out with the oil pan off?
Well.... I'll start by saying that I inherited this '98 Ranger 2.5 with an undetermined failure at roughly 196,000mi.. At that point it was known for sure that it was gonna cost me in either labor and money for just a rebuilt head with the unknown (at that time) factor of low-end problems, which undoubtedly would've been even more money and extraneous, repetitive labor to boot!
I was in the fortunate position of not needing to "have" the truck right away as I have other vehicles and chose instead to save up and plan for a crate engine swap, whilst rebuilding the front end and all of the various BS that you do while the engine is outta there! Yes, they're more money more than likely due to the fact that it's a Lima powerplant with twin plugs from Mazda ala Ford. However, I know this is situation is unique to me.
But seriously, if you have access to an engine hoist, or would feel up to the challenge and wanna get one at Harbor Freight (for maybe one time use, I know), it is not all that hard to lift that engine out enough to change that pan gasket. How bad do you need or want this truck?
My truck is gorgeous for 20 years old, and was taken care of for the most part until its failure, an exceptional case granted it's a single owner vehicle whom I know AND it's Arizona... No shitty rust BS!!


Sent from my LG-LS993 using Tapatalk

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleJacy View Post
Well.... I'll start by saying that I inherited this '98 Ranger 2.5 with an undetermined failure at roughly 196,000mi.. At that point it was known for sure that it was gonna cost me in either labor and money for just a rebuilt head with the unknown (at that time) factor of low-end problems, which undoubtedly would've been even more money and extraneous, repetitive labor to boot!
I was in the fortunate position of not needing to "have" the truck right away as I have other vehicles and chose instead to save up and plan for a crate engine swap, whilst rebuilding the front end and all of the various BS that you do while the engine is outta there! Yes, they're more money more than likely due to the fact that it's a Lima powerplant with twin plugs from Mazda ala Ford. However, I know this is situation is unique to me.
But seriously, if you have access to an engine hoist, or would feel up to the challenge and wanna get one at Harbor Freight (for maybe one time use, I know), it is not all that hard to lift that engine out enough to change that pan gasket. How bad do you need or want this truck?
My truck is gorgeous for 20 years old, and was taken care of for the most part until its failure, an exceptional case granted it's a single owner vehicle whom I know AND it's Arizona... No shitty rust BS!!


Sent from my LG-LS993 using Tapatalk
I'll add that this whole "rebuild" took me roughly a year to plan and finally complete. Since finishing I tinted the windows, and I am currently getting ready to change out the AC condenser as I must've rammed it with the damn engine when I was dropping it in! Seriously, it's not THAT hard to pull the engine, especially if you're just doing the pan. It's a matter of removing the hood for clearance and unplugging various (obvious) lines AND ALWAYS LABELING AND PHOTO-DOCUMENTING YOUR STEPS! I cannot emphasize the latter enough, it saved my ass on more than one day doing this job!

Sent from my LG-LS993 using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 03-29-2018, 09:35 PM
wh23g3g wh23g3g is offline
Like the Forums
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 44
Default Re: Is it possible to change oil pan gasket without removing engine?

Yeah I've still got the hoist I used for my big block and engine stand. The stand was straining with a big block bolted to it but it worked. The engine hoist was great. I took the big block out myself and installed it myself. The transmission was another story. I thought of getting a used 2.5 and building in my spare time. Or at the very least getting one making sure everything turned over nice and just reseal it all. My truck use to be immaculate like that one until I let family borrow it and they dented the passenger side by hitting something in the driveway. It cost more just to get the right side straightened up than the truck would be worth. It is my daily driver so it has to be ready to go all the time. The whole body and frame has 380,000 miles on it and I've had it since new back in 1998. I was just wondering if I were to have my mechanic change the oil pan gasket and rear main seal. Should anything else be done while it's out. Wondering how much time it would be down too.
__________________
1998 Ford Ranger XLT 2.5 4R44E Automatic Regular Cab, 4.10 non-limited slip, only modification is a Dynomax muffler.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 03-29-2018, 10:30 PM
LittleJacy LittleJacy is offline
Learning to use the forums
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 5
Default Re: Is it possible to change oil pan gasket without removing engine?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wh23g3g View Post
Yeah I've still got the hoist I used for my big block and engine stand. The stand was straining with a big block bolted to it but it worked. The engine hoist was great. I took the big block out myself and installed it myself. The transmission was another story. I thought of getting a used 2.5 and building in my spare time. Or at the very least getting one making sure everything turned over nice and just reseal it all. My truck use to be immaculate like that one until I let family borrow it and they dented the passenger side by hitting something in the driveway. It cost more just to get the right side straightened up than the truck would be worth. It is my daily driver so it has to be ready to go all the time. The whole body and frame has 380,000 miles on it and I've had it since new back in 1998. I was just wondering if I were to have my mechanic change the oil pan gasket and rear main seal. Should anything else be done while it's out. Wondering how much time it would be down too.
Manual or auto??

Sent from my LG-LS993 using Tapatalk

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleJacy View Post
Manual or auto??

Sent from my LG-LS993 using Tapatalk
Really, the obvious thing to me would be servicing all of the clear and present items such as changing the slave for the clutch and/or the clutch itself and/or servicing the transmission itself. There is only one motor mount you would can really change (passenger), as Ford in their infinite wisdom deemed the driver side "never" goes bad apparently and thus has no Ford part number in the FoMoCo system, weird.
Um, what else...the tyranny bolts are a bit of a bitch to get at if you're on your back, but dropping that tyranny cross member aids in that process.
Is it a weekend job? I would certainly say no. Not unless you're 19 and got a group of buddies doing all nighters , lol!

Sent from my LG-LS993 using Tapatalk

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleJacy View Post
Manual or auto??

Sent from my LG-LS993 using Tapatalk

----------

Really, the obvious thing to me would be servicing all of the clear and present items such as changing the slave for the clutch and/or the clutch itself and/or servicing the transmission itself. There is only one motor mount you would can really change (passenger), as Ford in their infinite wisdom deemed the driver side "never" goes bad apparently and thus has no Ford part number in the FoMoCo system, weird.
Um, what else...the tyranny bolts are a bit of a bitch to get at if you're on your back, but dropping that tyranny cross member aids in that process.
Is it a weekend job? I would certainly say no. Not unless you're 19 and got a group of buddies doing all nighters , lol!

Sent from my LG-LS993 using Tapatalk
Rear main seal, most definitely do.

Sent from my LG-LS993 using Tapatalk

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleJacy View Post
Manual or auto??

Sent from my LG-LS993 using Tapatalk

----------

Really, the obvious thing to me would be servicing all of the clear and present items such as changing the slave for the clutch and/or the clutch itself and/or servicing the transmission itself. There is only one motor mount you would can really change (passenger), as Ford in their infinite wisdom deemed the driver side "never" goes bad apparently and thus has no Ford part number in the FoMoCo system, weird.
Um, what else...the tyranny bolts are a bit of a bitch to get at if you're on your back, but dropping that tyranny cross member aids in that process.
Is it a weekend job? I would certainly say no. Not unless you're 19 and got a group of buddies doing all nighters , lol!

Sent from my LG-LS993 using Tapatalk

----------

Rear main seal, most definitely do.

Sent from my LG-LS993 using Tapatalk
A few shots of the power plant, et al.

Sent from my LG-LS993 using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 04-08-2018, 08:38 PM
wh23g3g wh23g3g is offline
Like the Forums
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 44
Default Re: Is it possible to change oil pan gasket without removing engine?

I've got an automatic. I was looking under it again. Mine is a 1998 but the original engine went out at 228,000 miles. I think it either lost the oil pump or spun a bearing. No one could give an answer why. I had a 50,000 mile used engine from a 2000 Ranger put in so now that one has about 200,000 miles. I looked under it because I know it's leaking a little but it looks worse than I thought since it appears I have a couple leaks. The oil pan isn't that bad. It leaks on the side of course under the exhaust manifold. Other side is totally dry. Probably rear main seal is leaking lightly, oil pump gasket appears to be leaking, and the front crank seal appears to be leaking. As well as the rack and pinion. The rack and pinion is original and has 380,000 miles on it. What all did you do to that 2.5? It appears the head was redone. Did you just clean up inside or bore it oversize? I'm just worrying it I have someone pull out the engine and repair only the leaking seals then maybe a few thousand more miles the bearings will go out. It does run good. The remanufactured 2.5's are $2000-$2500 which I'm not sure is worth the truck since the transmission might be right behind it. Just wondering how far into a rebuild did you go? Did you seem to save any money by rebuilding instead of replacing?
__________________
1998 Ford Ranger XLT 2.5 4R44E Automatic Regular Cab, 4.10 non-limited slip, only modification is a Dynomax muffler.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 04-09-2018, 08:33 AM
tomw0 tomw0 is offline
Ford Ranger Driver
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 827
Default Re: Is it possible to change oil pan gasket without removing engine?

With everything leaking you reported, are you sure the PCV system is venting properly? If the PCV system is not working, you can pressurize the crankcase and force lube out through the seals and gaskets. At idle, you should be able to remove the oil filler cap, and hold a piece of cardboard or paper over the port and the system should build a slight vacuum and hold the cardboard in place. The 'blow-in' magazine cards are great for this purpose. If it won't hold a card, then check that the PCV valve is working. In the ones I know of, it is 'in line' behind the alternator, drivers side, almost in front of the intake manifold. There's a tube leading from the separator with a 'split' partway up, where the PCV valve is stuffed. Pull it apart, and there it is. It should at least rattle if you shake it.
tom
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 04-22-2018, 09:09 PM
wh23g3g wh23g3g is offline
Like the Forums
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 44
Default Re: Is it possible to change oil pan gasket without removing engine?

Yeah the PCV system is clear. I always replace the PCV valve with a Motorcraft piece, the hose is good, and I even replaced the grommet last time. I believe the engine just has some miles on it. It was replaced at 228,000 miles with a 2000 2.5 that we believe had 50,000 miles on it but it was done out of state when it broke down. So I was at home driving a rental and the Ranger was out of state having the engine replaced. I didn't get a receipt because it was a small town shop literally with nothing around. So if that's correct it has over 200,000 miles on it. Probably between 200,000-210,000 miles. It runs good. I did two compression tests last year and they were both good. It appears the oil pan gasket is leaking only on the passenger side, the front crank seal is barely leaking, oil pump gasket is leaking, and the rear main seal is barely leaking. Kinda hard to tell if it is leaking really but I'm sure a new one would be ok. Valve cover is fine. Some of it might be from the rack and pinion because it appears to be leaking too. I was wondering if I pay the mechanic to take the engine out and replace all these gaskets. Do you think the head gasket, exhaust manifold gasket or intake gaskets should be disturbed? I was also wondering if the transmission torque converter seal should be changed, maybe even a new converter. The transmission has about 160,000 miles on it. It's just making the bottom of the truck all greasy but I imagine if nothing is done it will only get worse. I don't want to do a rebuild if it's still running great or just put another used engine in that may not be running as good.
__________________
1998 Ford Ranger XLT 2.5 4R44E Automatic Regular Cab, 4.10 non-limited slip, only modification is a Dynomax muffler.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 04-23-2018, 05:34 AM
tomw0 tomw0 is offline
Ford Ranger Driver
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 827
Default Re: Is it possible to change oil pan gasket without removing engine?

If you need this as a daily driver, why not get a used 2.5, and either go through that one, or swap it for your current engine? You could then take your time to do all the things a quarter million mile engine requires.
If you are considering all this for oil leakage or seepage, do some math. I personally don't like leaky engines and tend to do all sorts of things to make them stop. But. If I only used a quart of oil for every 3-5 tanks of fuel, I'd really consider the time & effort vs the $$ for a quart, plus the lack of use while repairing and the gaskets.
If you want a ballpark as to engine bearing condition, get a mechanical oil pressure gauge, and connect it temporarily to the pressure port. The 2.3 had them on the drivers side of the cylinder head, above and right of the oil filter. Remove the switch and connect the gauge. A good number is 10psi per 1k rpms. I'd want 10-20psi at idle, but I would accept numbers on the low end. I'd want to see at least 40psi going down the road at full temp.
Then, at full temp, shut the engine down and watch how long the gauge takes to go to zero. If it drops RIGHT NOW, rather than taking a second or two, I would have more concern. If you want a quicker shortcut test, get the engine hot, shut it down, and immediately re-start. If the oil light goes off RIGHT NOW, you are getting pressure developed that quick, which is good. Same on cranking a cold engine(not sub-zero cold), the light should go off instantly with good oil pressure. It will develop pressure quickly with good bearing clearance, and take a bit longer for looser bearings.
tom
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 04-23-2018, 09:39 PM
wh23g3g wh23g3g is offline
Like the Forums
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 44
Default Re: Is it possible to change oil pan gasket without removing engine?

Yeah it's my primary transportation. But I've got a couple other cars that run just fine. I've got a 99 Dakota 5.9 R/T that I had all the same mentioned gaskets replaced on too but the engine didn't have to come out. I had it back in a day too and it only cost $250 for a shop to do it. They did the pan gasket, pump, pump screen, and rear main seal. Of course the rear main seal didn't seal as they usually don't on Chrysler's after high mileage. It's a two piece seal. I always hate the 2 piece rear seals. I've also got a 2000 Chrysler Sebring I could use too. Usually the mechanic I go to can have big jobs done within a day or two and always does a good job. But I imagine it would be rather costly to do. I may go check with him tomorrow. I considered the used engine but the 2.5's I'm finding in driveable areas of my state are going for $600-$700 with 200,000 miles on them. Plus there isn't many available. I have a factory oil pressure gauge on mine. There isn't a light. I would hate to have the engine pulled and change all the seals and drive another 10,000 miles and it spins a bearing. That's what happened to the original engine at 228,000 miles and it was very well taken care of. I was rather disappointed as my 93 2.3 has well over 300,000 miles on it and it's never even had an ignition coil changed much less anything in the motor besides timing belt. It may even have 400,000 since it doesn't have the extra digit on the odometer. It's not even leaking oil either. It gets abused too and overloaded a lot. I can't believe it still fires right up with the slightest turn of the key. I'd also hate to get a used 2.5 and do all that and install it and find out it runs worse than the one I'm taking out. Because they're usually already taken out at the yards around here. If you take your time changing everything the 90 day warranty might be up before you get it in. I know that oil pressure port is kinda a pain to get to with a gauge. It's still on the back under the intake. If I was get all the seals done. One of them leaking is the oil pump gasket so I would like get a new oil pump. Still thinking about what I want to do. I haven't found another Ranger yet that I want to buy. I still want a 4.0 extra cab. I need a little more room.
__________________
1998 Ford Ranger XLT 2.5 4R44E Automatic Regular Cab, 4.10 non-limited slip, only modification is a Dynomax muffler.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 04-24-2018, 04:47 AM
tomw0 tomw0 is offline
Ford Ranger Driver
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 827
Default Re: Is it possible to change oil pan gasket without removing engine?

Unless Ford has changed their ways, the gauge does not indicate true oil pressure, just that there is pressure enough to close the switch. The switch closes, and a ground connects through a resistor to the gauge. The resistor(were mounted on the back side of the cluster) makes the gauge read in the middle of its range.
The only gauges(electric) that show actual pressure have a 'domed' sending unit mounted to the block/head pressure port. The dome covers a diaphragm, spring and 'sweep' that moves, changing resistance as the diaphragm is moved by oil pressure, compressing the spring. No dome, you have a plain ol' switch, on/off. Provides ground above 8psi approximately, and pops the gauge to the middle, thus the reason to use a mechanical to check. Of course FoMoCo may have changed things over the years.
tom
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 04-24-2018, 07:54 PM
wh23g3g wh23g3g is offline
Like the Forums
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 44
Default Re: Is it possible to change oil pan gasket without removing engine?

I remember when my original 2.5 went out at 228,000 miles random times before the oil pressure gauge would jump back and forth at idle or stops. I was told that it was more than likely a bad gauge so I just changed it. It didn't do it all the time so I thought it was the gauge that fixed it. I guess it was the bad clearances it had developed on the bearings. Well on a drive from Georgia to Ohio it died the night I got there. It ran fine all the way there and it was January. There was snow and ice all the way through Kentucky to Ohio. It was 3 degrees the day it quit. And it was at 3am in the middle of no where. It's steady so far on this engine. I just thought if it starts acting funny then the engine is almost done. I might see if I can have the shop check that. I've got to go in to change the rack pretty soon.
__________________
1998 Ford Ranger XLT 2.5 4R44E Automatic Regular Cab, 4.10 non-limited slip, only modification is a Dynomax muffler.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Pull Transmission to Change Oil Pan Gasket? ChasVS 3.0 Vulcan Tech 1 06-11-2016 11:43 PM
Transmission gasket change connor Drivetrain Tech 1 03-29-2013 12:03 PM
How to change Oil Pan Gasket on 1992 Ranger MarkusQT1 General Tech 3 09-09-2012 07:56 PM
Oil Leak Still After VC Gasket Change Dr Bobs Patient 4.0 SOHC / 4.0 OHV Tech 6 03-10-2011 05:05 PM
93 Ranger with 4.0L, Head Gasket change sunrise7 4.0 SOHC / 4.0 OHV Tech 1 05-11-2009 10:55 AM