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  #31  
Old 03-16-2018, 09:09 PM
sheltonfilms sheltonfilms is offline
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Default Re: Why does Mode 6 Test 53 shows I have 10 cylinders on a 4 cylinder?

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Originally Posted by wh23g3g View Post
I haven't had time to do the vacuum test. Probably will Monday. But I've been watching my fuel trims and RPM while driving back and forth to work. Tonight it cut off when I was driving in a hurry to get back from break, then I stopped real sudden and quick at a stop sign. When I let off the brake and pressed the gas it cut off. Then on the way home a few hours later I watched the fuel trims and RPM. When you stop and the RPM drops noticeably you can watch the long term fuel trim jump into the 21-22's until you take off again. I also rescanned Mode 6 and looked at Test 53 again. It's still showing 3 and 4 misfiring but #4 is now at 0.49% and #3 is still at 0.24%. How do I rule out the injectors? I know I can't get to them with a noid light unless it take the upper intake off.


Could take a long screwdriver or prybar and press against the injectors with your ear up against the handle (also use mechanics stethoscope). Should hear consistent clicking. Use the #1 injector for reference. Should be able to get to them through one of the runners.

If you want to get a connector off and get a noid light on it try doing it from behind the manifold at least for the #4 injector.


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  #32  
Old 03-16-2018, 09:37 PM
wh23g3g wh23g3g is offline
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Default Re: Why does Mode 6 Test 53 shows I have 10 cylinders on a 4 cylinder?

I've got a mechanic's scope and I did a few days ago. But I could not really get to the #4 injector with it because it was blocked by the runner. I did hear clicking on #1-#3 but don't know what else to be listening for besides the clicking. Also on the Test 53 of Mode 6 the limit on the misfire is 22.94 I think. So does that mean that cylinder has to be misfiring 22% of the time in order for the PCM to throw a misfire code? Since I've owned this truck and had misfire problems before, they were all ignition related. Even when the coils were so bad the truck would barely move it never picked up a misfire. How do you rule out a bad PCM? I don't know how many mechanics I've asked who said I probably have a bad computer. It just makes me wonder how many times they've replaced customers computers when there was nothing wrong with them.
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  #33  
Old 03-16-2018, 09:49 PM
sheltonfilms sheltonfilms is offline
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Default Re: Why does Mode 6 Test 53 shows I have 10 cylinders on a 4 cylinder?

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Originally Posted by wh23g3g View Post
I've got a mechanic's scope and I did a few days ago. But I could not really get to the #4 injector with it because it was blocked by the runner. I did hear clicking on #1-#3 but don't know what else to be listening for besides the clicking. Also on the Test 53 of Mode 6 the limit on the misfire is 22.94 I think. So does that mean that cylinder has to be misfiring 22% of the time in order for the PCM to throw a misfire code? Since I've owned this truck and had misfire problems before, they were all ignition related. Even when the coils were so bad the truck would barely move it never picked up a misfire. How do you rule out a bad PCM? I don't know how many mechanics I've asked who said I probably have a bad computer. It just makes me wonder how many times they've replaced customers computers when there was nothing wrong with them.


You have to check all the outputs. Making sure your fuel pressure is good to rule out fuel pump driver. Have to also check primary ignition output from the PCM as well.

You need to find a good mechanic that knows how to use an oscilloscope. Looking at primary ignition with a low current probe you can tell from the amp wave whatís going on in that cylinder.

Iíve got a 1/2 misfire. Iím starting to wonder if it has something to do with 1/2 have positive polarity where 3/4 has negative polarity spark. Since that is the only thing in common with 1/2 or 3/4.

Iím still attacking mine but since it is drivable a check a few things every now and then.

Iím not seeing that high off a LTFT though. Mine will jumped up to like 9. A small positive jump happens during ignition misfires, since the fuel/air mix doesnít burn so more oxygen is detected by the O2 sensors.




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  #34  
Old 03-17-2018, 12:41 AM
wh23g3g wh23g3g is offline
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Default Re: Why does Mode 6 Test 53 shows I have 10 cylinders on a 4 cylinder?

I doubt I could find a mechanic capable of that depth of diagnosis around here. Even Ford said they could no longer service my vehicle because they don't have an NGS tester anymore. Another Ford dealer just simply said it was too old to work on in their service department. My fuel pressure tester hose isn't long enough to run under the hood to the windshield to watch it while I drive. But I don't think that would be safe anyway because there wouldn't be enough clearance between the hood and top of the cowl to keep the hood safely closed. Plus these years have the flimsy fiberglass hood that doesn't take anything to fly up. My fuel pressure is within specs about 60-62 PSI at idle. If the engine actually shuts off while stopping and them getting ready to accelerate again why would it not pickup a code. I have no stored or pending codes. Do the basics still apply to this truck as it having to have air, fuel, and spark to properly run? So doesn't that mean one is going away when it shuts off? Could the inertia switch cause such a problem but not trip so that it has to be reset? Because it always starts right back up when it shuts off. It probably won't shut off again for another month's worth of driving now.
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  #35  
Old 03-17-2018, 07:33 AM
sheltonfilms sheltonfilms is offline
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Default Re: Why does Mode 6 Test 53 shows I have 10 cylinders on a 4 cylinder?

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Originally Posted by wh23g3g View Post
I doubt I could find a mechanic capable of that depth of diagnosis around here. Even Ford said they could no longer service my vehicle because they don't have an NGS tester anymore. Another Ford dealer just simply said it was too old to work on in their service department. My fuel pressure tester hose isn't long enough to run under the hood to the windshield to watch it while I drive. But I don't think that would be safe anyway because there wouldn't be enough clearance between the hood and top of the cowl to keep the hood safely closed. Plus these years have the flimsy fiberglass hood that doesn't take anything to fly up. My fuel pressure is within specs about 60-62 PSI at idle. If the engine actually shuts off while stopping and them getting ready to accelerate again why would it not pickup a code. I have no stored or pending codes. Do the basics still apply to this truck as it having to have air, fuel, and spark to properly run? So doesn't that mean one is going away when it shuts off? Could the inertia switch cause such a problem but not trip so that it has to be reset? Because it always starts right back up when it shuts off. It probably won't shut off again for another month's worth of driving now.


The misfires and dying could be unrelated, just a thought.

Could be the IAC dashpot function. Computer should anticipate the RPMs dropping suddenly from the deceleration and ramp up IAC duty cycle to ďcushionĒ the drop of the RPMs. Maybe the plunger is getting hung up or not moving fast enough. You replaced the IAC recently? What brand was it?


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  #36  
Old 03-17-2018, 09:00 PM
wh23g3g wh23g3g is offline
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Default Re: Why does Mode 6 Test 53 shows I have 10 cylinders on a 4 cylinder?

I replaced just a couple of weeks ago, maybe 2 weeks ago. I used a new Motorcraft from Rockauto. I kept the Standard Ignition one too. I also listened to the fuel injectors today when I first started it up for the day. Of course when it initially starts it's not missing right away. All the injectors had the clicking noise even when the miss started. It's such a slight miss too that some may not even be able to notice it. I just find it amazing how much difference in the way the engine is running-idling when I disconnect the vacuum line on the EGR valve. It runs like it should. I haven't tried to drive it with the EGR line disconnected at the valve because I didn't know if it would mess anything up. Plus I don't have anything to plug up the unplugged vacuum line. It's never cut out on me this much before even when I had a totally failed ignition coil a few years ago, it just ran bad but never stalled. It only cuts out maybe once or twice a month. Even when the fuel pump pressure was in the 40 PSI range a few years ago too it never stalled it just ran bad. What would it do if I test drove it without the EGR valve hose plugged in? I maybe just be misjudging but I think it might actually be down on power when you stomp the gas, it doesn't immediately respond. I use to have a Superchips chip on the computer a few years ago, along with a cold air intake, and a throttle body spacer but now it's all gone. Totally stock. So it could just be the power of a stock high mileage engine. There is also a distinct smell from the exhaust but only literally for like 5-6 seconds when you first start it up after sitting over night, like a car with a carburetor misadjusted carburetor. It's not a bad converter smell I don't know if it's the too lean smell or too rich smell. I always get them confused. The injectors I put on last year I got on ebay from USACarburetors as them Bosch remanufactured set. It's got the Ford number but the listing said they were the Bosch upgrade injectors. I don't know if he'll do it but I'm thinking of going to talk to my general mechanic Monday and see if it's possible to at least do a leak down test on cylinders 3 and 4 with the leak down tester without having to leave my truck all day. Can you use the exhaust side plugs to do the leak down test?
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  #37  
Old 03-17-2018, 09:08 PM
sheltonfilms sheltonfilms is offline
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Default Re: Why does Mode 6 Test 53 shows I have 10 cylinders on a 4 cylinder?

If you leave it unplugged it will cause a vacuum leak when the egr vacuum solenoid is activated. To avoid this unplug the vacuum line And unplug the electrical connector to the egr vacuum solenoid. This will keep the leak from happening.

Yes you can do a leak down test using the exhaust side, as long as the other sides spark plugs are in.

Why donít you just rent a compression tester and do it yourself (just have to remove the check valve in the hose) Not have an air compressor?


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  #38  
Old 03-17-2018, 09:26 PM
wh23g3g wh23g3g is offline
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Default Re: Why does Mode 6 Test 53 shows I have 10 cylinders on a 4 cylinder?

Yeah I don't have a compressor. I can order the proper leak down tester kit on EBAY for like $25 but then I'd have to at least get a cheap compressor so by the time I do that it would be about the same as taking it to the mechanic as far as price. If I could just get to check cylinder 3 and 4 since I know there's some misfiring there it would tell me if the valves are leaking on that cylinder. On the EGR valve can I just unplug the red hose on the EGR valve or do I have to unplug the ones going to the EPR solenoid? I understand to unplug the electrical connector to the EPR valve but do I need to also unplug the hoses there too or it won't matter?
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  #39  
Old 03-18-2018, 06:22 AM
sheltonfilms sheltonfilms is offline
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Default Why does Mode 6 Test 53 shows I have 10 cylinders on a 4 cylinder?

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Originally Posted by wh23g3g View Post
Yeah I don't have a compressor. I can order the proper leak down tester kit on EBAY for like $25 but then I'd have to at least get a cheap compressor so by the time I do that it would be about the same as taking it to the mechanic as far as price. If I could just get to check cylinder 3 and 4 since I know there's some misfiring there it would tell me if the valves are leaking on that cylinder. On the EGR valve can I just unplug the red hose on the EGR valve or do I have to unplug the ones going to the EPR solenoid? I understand to unplug the electrical connector to the EPR valve but do I need to also unplug the hoses there too or it won't matter?


Just have to unplug vacuum line at valve on back top of intake manifold.

How the hell can ford tell you they do t have a scan tool to work on this truck? iDS (fords new system) has all the functionality of the old WDS system. Forscan is essentially a clone of IDS.


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  #40  
Old 03-18-2018, 07:03 AM
tomw0 tomw0 is offline
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Default Re: Why does Mode 6 Test 53 shows I have 10 cylinders on a 4 cylinder?

I've read the whole assembly of posts... If you have EGR flow at idle, there's something wrong. If disconnecting the EGR vacuum, by any method, makes the idle improve, then the valve works, but the vacuum controls are messed.
You can plug a vacuum line with a golf tee. Or a bolt. Or a nail. Or shove it onto the portion of a bolt that is exposed 'beyond' the nut/fastener it is screwed into. Some will allow a small bit of leakage, but even so, if the idle gets smooth when the vacuum is plugged, it should indicate a problem with the vacuum controls.
Before doing a leakdown test, was a compression test performed? Do you have a 'dead miss' at idle(not from reading above posts)? If disconnecting the EGR eliminates the miss, then fix the EGR, and worry about the other stuff later.
If you can observe, you can check most IAC functions from a cold start. The idle should be 'fast' when first started, and drop as the coolant heats up. If you turn on the A/C or defrost mode with the engine at idle, the IAC should bump the idle to compensate for compressor load. If you swivel the steering wheel back and forth at idle, the load of the power steering pump should be compensated for by the IAC.
If it is not compensated for, I'd clean the IAC, and try again. If it is, the IAC is generally working as designed.
If the engine stalls when coming to a stop, for example, after a good loooonggg run on the freeway, at steady highway speeds, it is not real abnormal, as now and again temps and conditions can be 'off' from what the machine is accustomed to. If it occurs more than once or twice in a 6 month period of time, I'd investigate. If that was the frequency, I'd just ignore it if otherwise things were working properly. But that's my opinion only.
tom
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  #41  
Old 03-18-2018, 08:51 PM
wh23g3g wh23g3g is offline
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Default Re: Why does Mode 6 Test 53 shows I have 10 cylinders on a 4 cylinder?

Well I did what suggested by unplugging the vacuum hose at the EGR valve, then I put a vacuum cap over the valve connection, then I put a cap over the vacuum hose end, and I also unplugged the EPR solenoid electrical connector. Of course the CEL came on but the idle at stops was night and day difference. It had normal power for a stock high mileage 2.5 automatic but it made a big difference in the idle at stops. It still was hard to start one time but I'm attributing that to the fuel pump that leaks down after shut off. It runs worlds better at stops but I was watching the fuel trims and the long term still jumps to the 20's at stops eventhough it idles normal now with the EGR unplugged. The IAC does everything it's suppose to. The throttle body has be rebuilt by Autoline so it's not all clogged up and it has a new Motorcraft IAC on it. When I had the EGR plugged in and checked for vacuum Parked at idle last week the bottom vacuum hose connector had vacuum, not the EPR port itself. So is it suppose to do that? Anyway something must be wrong in the EGR system because it's better. But what is wrong? I saw the EPR valve was a Dorman 911-128 but I can't remember where I got it from, the Pressure sensor is Delphi I got from Summit, and the EGR valve is Motorcraft from Rockauto. The EPR valve and pressure sensor are probably a year or two old now.
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  #42  
Old 03-22-2018, 09:09 PM
wh23g3g wh23g3g is offline
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Default Re: Why does Mode 6 Test 53 shows I have 10 cylinders on a 4 cylinder?

Well I've been driving all week with the EPR electrical connector unplugged, EGR valve hose unplugged and the hose blocked off. It's running and idling at stops normal the way it should. I did try and plug the hose back in one day with the EPR electrical connector still unplugged and it seemed to pick up the miss at stops again. I'm not sure if it was just because it was a cold day and was a short trip, but when I stopped for lunch I plugged the EGR hose back up and it's been running great since. How do I know if I have the DPFE wires plugged into the right wire on the connector? I had to replace the DPFE connector one time because it cracked. The wires on the connector were all the same color. Even on the new connector the wires are all the same color. So how do I know if I have them in the right order. The only thing I know to try is that I ordered a Ford EPR valve. Still waiting on it. I'll post if it helps all plugged back in.
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  #43  
Old 03-26-2018, 05:23 PM
wh23g3g wh23g3g is offline
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Default Re: Why does Mode 6 Test 53 shows I have 10 cylinders on a 4 cylinder?

It appears to have been a failed EPR valve. I ordered a new Ford EPR solenoid valve and replaced it. Been driving 3-4 days in various weather conditions, no more idle drops at stops, if it's still missing I don't know because at stops now it's running so smooth sometimes I can't even tell it's running unless I've got the A/C or heater on. It runs, idles, and drives like a stock 2.5 automatic. Seems to be ok for now. Still a little hesitant to say it's 100% cure so I'd still like to replace the DPFE sensor with a Ford unit as well as clean out the EGR line.
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  #44  
Old 03-27-2018, 08:07 PM
sheltonfilms sheltonfilms is offline
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Default Re: Why does Mode 6 Test 53 shows I have 10 cylinders on a 4 cylinder?

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Originally Posted by wh23g3g View Post
It appears to have been a failed EPR valve. I ordered a new Ford EPR solenoid valve and replaced it. Been driving 3-4 days in various weather conditions, no more idle drops at stops, if it's still missing I don't know because at stops now it's running so smooth sometimes I can't even tell it's running unless I've got the A/C or heater on. It runs, idles, and drives like a stock 2.5 automatic. Seems to be ok for now. Still a little hesitant to say it's 100% cure so I'd still like to replace the DPFE sensor with a Ford unit as well as clean out the EGR line.


Good to hear. Clear the codes and periodically check mode $06.


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