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  #1  
Old 10-11-2017, 10:37 AM
Harbor_Handed Harbor_Handed is offline
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Default How much PAG oil to put in replacement AC compressor

I am going to be replacing my AC compressor with new Motorcraft unit. I've got the compressor, the vacuum pump, the manifold gauge, the tap, the PAG 46 oil, the R134A, the O-rings, the AC disconnect tools, the extension cord....I think I'm all set.

But precisely how much PAG oil should I add to the new compressor before installing it? It's 2003 Ranger 2.3 liter.

I've read 4 oz somewhere for the compressor.....But I've also read one should drain the oil from the old compressor into a measuring cup, then add that much + 1 oz to new compressor. (I assume no oil is removed when the old R134A is evacuated by a mechanic?)

I know that the capacity of R134A for the whole system is 30 oz, and the PAG oil for the whole system is 9 oz....but just wondering about the compressor specifically. Thank you!
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Old 10-12-2017, 03:21 AM
dvrich dvrich is offline
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Default Re: How much PAG oil to put in replacement AC compressor

That's a good question. I don't know if the reman and new compressors come with 9 oz of oil in them or they need to be filled or topped off at installation.
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  #3  
Old 10-12-2017, 06:22 AM
tomw0 tomw0 is offline
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Default Re: How much PAG oil to put in replacement AC compressor

Most compressors come dry. There are 2(at least) oils that can be used with 134a, so they don't decide which on for you. (PAG and Ester)
The drain and add one advice is pretty much what I have read also.
If your system is aged, you might want to consider replacing the accumulator or receiver/dryer. Either one will be equipped with a small bag of desiccant. Over time, somehow in a sealed system, water will get in, which the desiccant can absorb. Most will absorb something on the order of ten drops.. Theyz small. Decent shops will recommend replacing the above item to protect from the small humidity that will get into the tubes/hoses while the compressor is disconnected.
When I replace my evaporator, I immediately covered the ends of the hi/lo side with tape to limit humidity intrusion. I still replaced the low side & accumulator(one assembly) as had been recommended. Also recommended was to replace the high side line with the built in orifice tube.(a few dollars, and made sure there would be no restriction)
It still works today, and I did the work in 2000. Hooray.
No matter what you decide, at least cover the ends of any tube or opening you expose to atmosphere as soon as you can, and leave them covered until you are ready to connect things back up.
I would also recommend getting the fitting 'lube' for snap-spring connections, NYLOG. It seems similar to STP oil treatment. It will keep the fittings from wiggling around, wearing the O-rings and leaking. And, replace the O-rings on anything you take apart or any fitting that has a 'dirt collection' around it. Dirt will collect and stick to anyplace refrigerant leaks out, as the refrigerant will carry the oil with it, evaporate, and leave the oil behind to trap dirt. Disconnect, clean, replace the O-rings, and give it a dab of NYLOG. I used it back when, and have not had to touch the system since.
My nickels worth.
tom
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Old 10-12-2017, 04:22 PM
Harbor_Handed Harbor_Handed is offline
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Default Re: How much PAG oil to put in replacement AC compressor

Thank you, both, I appreciate the responses.

TomW, can I easily replace the accumulator with my plastic AC coupler disconnect tools, or do I need any special tools/skills to do that? If it's easy-peasy, then I'll pick up an accumulator and replace it.

My idle RPM issue is weird, I assumed it was due to my AC compressor leak (there was UV dye at the compressor seam), but when the idles randomly starts dropping down, it continues to do it even after I turn the AC off. The other day, it clearly did it in response to how high the blower fan was set: the higher the setting, the more it would dip down.

I wonder if the idle dipping/hunting that's happening could be caused by something else than my AC compressor leak: like a weak alternator? Or timing chain (I have that timing chain knock when the truck gets hot...I wonder if that is causing the RPM idle to drop at certain times. The idle dropping does seem to only happen when it's been driven a while i.e. hot. Hmmmmmm...)
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Last edited by Harbor_Handed; 10-12-2017 at 04:26 PM.
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  #5  
Old 10-13-2017, 02:48 AM
EaOutlaw1969 EaOutlaw1969 is offline
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Default Re: How much PAG oil to put in replacement AC compressor

From Alldata for a 2002 2.3 ranger your should be the same.

AUTION: During normal A/C operation, oil is circulated through the system with the refrigerant, and a small amount is retained in each component. If certain components of the system are removed for new installation, some of the refrigerant oil will go with the component. To maintain the original total oil charge, it is necessary to compensate for the oil lost by adding oil to the system with the new part.

Rotate the A/C compressor shaft six to eight revolutions while collecting oil in a clean measuring device.
If the amount of oil drained from the old A/C compressor is between 85-142 ml (3-5 ounces) , pour the same amount plus 30 ml (1 ounce) of clean PAG Refrigerant Compressor Oil (R-134a Systems) F7AZ-19589-DA (Motorcraft YN-12-C) WSH M1C231-B or equivalent into the new A/C compressor.
If the amount of oil that was removed from the old A/C compressor is greater than 142 ml (5 ounces) , pour the same amount drained of clean PAG Refrigerant Compressor Oil (R-134a Systems) or equivalent into the new A/C compressor.
If the amount of oil that was removed from the old A/C compressor is less than 85 ml (3 ounces) , pour 85 ml (3 ounces) of clean PAG Refrigerant Compressor Oil (R-134a Systems) or equivalent into the new A/C compressor.
NOTE: Service A/C compressors are shipped without compressor oil.

For the suction accumulator/drier, drill one 13 mm (0.52 in) hole in the suction accumulator/drier cylinder and drain the oil into a calibrated container.
Add a quantity of new oil to match that drained from the old suction accumulator/drier plus 60 ml (2 ounces) of clean PAG Refrigerant Compressor Oil (R-134a Systems) or equivalent.
For the A/C evaporator core, add 89 ml (3 ounces) of clean PAG Refrigerant Compressor Oil (R-134a Systems) or equivalent to the suction accumulator/drier inlet tube.
For the A/C condenser core, add 30 ml (1 ounce) of clean PAG Refrigerant Compressor Oil (R-134a Systems) or equivalent to the A/C condenser core or the suction accumulator/drier inlet tube.
Add 60 ml (2 ounces) of clean PAG Refrigerant Compressor Oil (R-134a Systems) or equivalent to the suction accumulator/drier inlet tube when carrying out each of the following repairs:
installation of a new A/C evaporator core orifice
installation of a new A/C compressor pressure relief valve
installation of a new refrigerant line
repair of an O-ring seal leak
repair of a charge port leak
Installation of new components that do not require discharge of refrigerant and resulting oil loss, such as the A/C cycling switch and the A/C pressure transducer, do not require additional oil.

I suggest making other threads for the other issues.

As far as the rolling idle, Do you have a check engine light on?

If your concerned about the battery or alternator how about measuring the voltage from the alternator and battery.

On your noise did you ever check for excessive carbon build up in the combustion chamber?

A inexpensive inspection camera could be picked up to find out how much carbon is in the combustion chamber.

Since the noise is worse when hot and effected with a different thermostat it seems to be something worth looking into.

Going by Alldata diagnostic page for noises it shows carbon build up of a possible cause of the noise you are hearing.



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  #6  
Old 10-13-2017, 03:58 PM
Harbor_Handed Harbor_Handed is offline
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Default Re: How much PAG oil to put in replacement AC compressor

Thanks very much, EAOutlaw.
That's very helpful! I'll probably do the compressor replacement next weekend, and perhaps also the accumulator & orifice tube. Just have to have all my ducks in a row and know exactly what I'm getting into before I start. ;-)

I stopped by a mechanic today and he took my truck back and looked at it. He said the battery, alternator, and everything looks fine. My truck's idles were not acting up when it was there, it only does it about 10% of the time. He said he was almost certain that it's a vacuum leak, and I think he's probably right and I think I know which line has the leak. Will fix it with new vacuum-hose tomorrow.

Regarding my knocking when hot, I'm 95% certain it's the timing chain knocking. The tensioner/guides need to be replaced, and maybe the chain itself. I did look at the tops of a piston with a flashlight when I took the spark plug out a while back and it looked fine in there.

Thanks again!
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  #7  
Old 10-14-2017, 04:43 AM
tomw0 tomw0 is offline
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Default Re: How much PAG oil to put in replacement AC compressor

If you look around on The River, you can find small probe type cameras that work with USB connection to Androis, i???s, and PCs. For less than $15 you can get a 5mm in diameter probe on the end of a 1-2meter long cable, some semi-stiff, that can be inserted into a spark plug hole. They have adjustable lights(ring of LEDs), mirrors, hooks, and possibly other attachments.
If there was a port that lead to the chain case, you might be able to inspect the guides, chain, etc, or get it caught so you had to remove the cover...
tom
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  #8  
Old 10-14-2017, 03:35 PM
Harbor_Handed Harbor_Handed is offline
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Default Re: How much PAG oil to put in replacement AC compressor

Thanks, Tom!

So as y'all know, I have dropping/fluctuating idle about 10% of the time. The mechanic told me he yesterday he strongly suspected vacuum leak, so I thoroughly investigated my vacuum lines today. I even went to the corner market, bought a cigar, and blew cigar smoke into my vacuum lines. Totally fine, no vacuum leaks that I could tell.

So I started thinking on the physics of the matter. I have a new Motorcraft IAC valve on there that I bought from RockAuto in July. It's installed correctly, the mechanic yesterday checked it. But then I thought "Hey wait...just cause it's new and it's Motorcraft doesn't mean it's working right!"

I got my original IAC valve out of the closet (I replaced it in July because I was starting to have some idle fluctuations), but instead of just putting it right back on, I decided to lubricate it because my new hypothesis is that NEITHER of these IAC valves are opening properly: not the old one, not the new one. I sprayed some WD-40 into the old IAC valve and put it on my truck. I also examined my throttle body and it was clean as a whistle and closing properly. Then I started the truck with my freshly lubricated original IAC valve on it. The truck immediately staggered and almost stalled due to the fumes from the WD-40 but after a few seconds it was fine and I went for a drive: My idle was smooth as butter! Totally stable. Even when I toggled the AC off and on, it didn't dip down or fluctuate at all, which is definitely a new experience.

So I'm tentatively going to say that many IAC valves are under-lubricated, and from what I can tell, my problem is now fixed.

If the idle dropping comes back, I'll eat my words on this, but from what I can tell, both my IAC valves were under-lubricated inside and thus couldn't open optimally. I have initiated a return with RockAuto to exchange my newer IAC valve for a new one. I'll put the new one on when it comes and we'll see how it performs but if it starts acting weird I'm going to lubricate it. Wish I could've gotten a refund but it's been too long, they'll only do a warranty exchange.
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  #9  
Old 10-14-2017, 04:10 PM
GSF1200S GSF1200S is offline
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Default Re: How much PAG oil to put in replacement AC compressor

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harbor_Handed View Post
Thanks, Tom!

So as y'all know, I have dropping/fluctuating idle about 10% of the time. The mechanic told me he yesterday he strongly suspected vacuum leak, so I thoroughly investigated my vacuum lines today. I even went to the corner market, bought a cigar, and blew cigar smoke into my vacuum lines. Totally fine, no vacuum leaks that I could tell.

So I started thinking on the physics of the matter. I have a new Motorcraft IAC valve on there that I bought from RockAuto in July. It's installed correctly, the mechanic yesterday checked it. But then I thought "Hey wait...just cause it's new and it's Motorcraft doesn't mean it's working right!"

I got my original IAC valve out of the closet (I replaced it in July because I was starting to have some idle fluctuations), but instead of just putting it right back on, I decided to lubricate it because my new hypothesis is that NEITHER of these IAC valves are opening properly: not the old one, not the new one. I sprayed some WD-40 into the old IAC valve and put it on my truck. I also examined my throttle body and it was clean as a whistle and closing properly. Then I started the truck with my freshly lubricated original IAC valve on it. The truck immediately staggered and almost stalled due to the fumes from the WD-40 but after a few seconds it was fine and I went for a drive: My idle was smooth as butter! Totally stable. Even when I toggled the AC off and on, it didn't dip down or fluctuate at all, which is definitely a new experience.

So I'm tentatively going to say that many IAC valves are under-lubricated, and from what I can tell, my problem is now fixed.

If the idle dropping comes back, I'll eat my words on this, but from what I can tell, both my IAC valves were under-lubricated inside and thus couldn't open optimally. I have initiated a return with RockAuto to exchange my newer IAC valve for a new one. I'll put the new one on when it comes and we'll see how it performs but if it starts acting weird I'm going to lubricate it. Wish I could've gotten a refund but it's been too long, they'll only do a warranty exchange.
WD-40 is a pretty poor lubricant and doesnt last very long. If the fluctuation comes back, I would try a different lubricant. As for what kind, perhaps someone else could recommend one- I wouldnt want one prone to collect any dust (micro amounts still make it through the air filter), so that narrows options. Ask tomw0 via a PM what he thinks- dude always has pretty good advice.

FYI I replaced my IAC valve at around 90k because it started to make a high pitched whistle. I used a Borg Warner from Advance Auto and I've had no idle fluctuations or other issues. Generally I recommend against aftermarket brands nowadays because I've had nothing but problems with them (heater control valve leaked out of the box- 3 times straight- before I got a Motorcraft, duralast water pump seal failed in 10k miles despite a flushed system, and more). However, that IAC valve, a REMY alternator, and the Spectra radiator I used have worked without any issues.
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Last edited by GSF1200S; 10-14-2017 at 04:17 PM.
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  #10  
Old 10-15-2017, 08:20 AM
Harbor_Handed Harbor_Handed is offline
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Default Re: How much PAG oil to put in replacement AC compressor

Quote:
Originally Posted by GSF1200S View Post
WD-40 is a pretty poor lubricant and doesnt last very long. If the fluctuation comes back, I would try a different lubricant. As for what kind, perhaps someone else could recommend one- I wouldnt want one prone to collect any dust (micro amounts still make it through the air filter), so that narrows options. Ask tomw0 via a PM what he thinks- dude always has pretty good advice.

FYI I replaced my IAC valve at around 90k because it started to make a high pitched whistle. I used a Borg Warner from Advance Auto and I've had no idle fluctuations or other issues. Generally I recommend against aftermarket brands nowadays because I've had nothing but problems with them (heater control valve leaked out of the box- 3 times straight- before I got a Motorcraft, duralast water pump seal failed in 10k miles despite a flushed system, and more). However, that IAC valve, a REMY alternator, and the Spectra radiator I used have worked without any issues.
Thanks for the info, GSF.
I actually have some 3-in-One Dry Lube for locks, I probably should've lubricated it with that. I think I'll use that in the future if I need to lubricate an IAC valve.

In researching this issue online, there are lots of people who also recommend lubricating their IAC and have had great relief from idle problems by doing so. Some recommend using motor oil, some say ATF, some use a dry lube. One guy said he always soaked the mechanical part of his IAC valve in hot oil overnight before installing, and his IAC valves last forever problem-free. lol
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  #11  
Old 10-16-2017, 06:57 AM
tomw0 tomw0 is offline
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Default Re: How much PAG oil to put in replacement AC compressor

I have yet to lube an IAC. But, if I did, I'd try some silicone spray.

Given that WD-40 mostly evaporates, I suspect that it cleaned or loosened some crud in the IAC, and allowed the spool to move more freely. It is not much of a lube.
The new Rock part should have worked out of the box. I'd figure there was a burr or chip or nick in the spool valve, either the moving part, or the fixed 'port' that the spool moves through. You can move the spool manually, and rotate it to inspect if you want to see if there's a defect. When replaced, you also have to give the system a bit of time for it to learn that the IAC is 'new', and does not respond exactly the same as the old one, I think. A quick way is a battery disconnect, and use up the 'KAM' power by turning the headlights on or dancing on the brake pedal. Either will try to light, and would suck the power from the Keep Alive if possible. Or not, it may be an old tale...
tom
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Old 10-17-2017, 07:43 AM
Harbor_Handed Harbor_Handed is offline
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Default Re: How much PAG oil to put in replacement AC compressor

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomw0 View Post
I have yet to lube an IAC. But, if I did, I'd try some silicone spray.

Given that WD-40 mostly evaporates, I suspect that it cleaned or loosened some crud in the IAC, and allowed the spool to move more freely. It is not much of a lube.
The new Rock part should have worked out of the box. I'd figure there was a burr or chip or nick in the spool valve, either the moving part, or the fixed 'port' that the spool moves through. You can move the spool manually, and rotate it to inspect if you want to see if there's a defect. When replaced, you also have to give the system a bit of time for it to learn that the IAC is 'new', and does not respond exactly the same as the old one, I think. A quick way is a battery disconnect, and use up the 'KAM' power by turning the headlights on or dancing on the brake pedal. Either will try to light, and would suck the power from the Keep Alive if possible. Or not, it may be an old tale...
tom
Thanks, Tom.
I definitely think that my new Motorcraft IAC valve was malfunctioning in some way, whether due to under-lubrication (I read on a forum that IACV pintle workings have a thin layer of lithium grease for lubrication) or a different reason. I drove 15+ miles yesterday with my WD-40 lubed old IACV and it was doing great, it always bumped the RPM needle up to 900 where it's supposed to be. I feel so relieved about this, it was very annoying trying to chase that idle RPM gremlin.

Thanks for the rec, I think I'll pick up some silicone spray and re-lube my IAC as added insurance.
And the new replacement Motorcraft IACV that's on its way, I'll just keep in my truck for emergency purposes.
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  #13  
Old 10-18-2017, 05:49 AM
tomw0 tomw0 is offline
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Default Re: How much PAG oil to put in replacement AC compressor

Don't get the spray into the intake manifold... I think silicone may be poison to catalytic converters. I have read about the RTV silicone being dangerous, maybe it was O2 sensors, but it may be converters. Maybe you can find a silicone lube that is marked safe.
I would not use the 'dry lube' for lock cylinders, it is powdered graphite, which is carbon or ground up pencil lead material. I don't think it would be good to feed into an engine, but may be harmless. Just doesn't seem right to use there.
tom
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Old 10-18-2017, 04:19 PM
Harbor_Handed Harbor_Handed is offline
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Default Re: How much PAG oil to put in replacement AC compressor

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomw0 View Post
Don't get the spray into the intake manifold... I think silicone may be poison to catalytic converters. I have read about the RTV silicone being dangerous, maybe it was O2 sensors, but it may be converters. Maybe you can find a silicone lube that is marked safe.
I would not use the 'dry lube' for lock cylinders, it is powdered graphite, which is carbon or ground up pencil lead material. I don't think it would be good to feed into an engine, but may be harmless. Just doesn't seem right to use there.
tom
Hi Tom,
Yes, I tried some of the dry lube on my fingers and in 5 seconds it was non-existent, no slip whatsoever, so I decided against that.

I bought silicone lube spray today and took my IAC off and lubed it up real good, now it's back on my truck and still working well. Hoping I can now forget about idle issues for a good long while!! ;-)

Thanks for your help!
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