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  #1  
Old 03-17-2017, 01:16 PM
Affane78 Affane78 is offline
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Default 2000 Ranger XLT 2.5l manual brakes collapse!

Hello everyone I'am new to the community. I've in fact never owned a pickup truck until last week I bought my very first. It's a diamond in the rough but I'm down to polish her properly. Many issues I'm having starting with suspension needing a complete overhaul, timing belt is overdue by the looks of the belt, the coolant was brown and sticky but I flushed it and put new one. It had a CEL for IAC valve... I bought a new one from Napa but it didn't solve the issue so I returned it. Messed with the adjusting screw and it brought the idle some. Replaced the PSP but still not as quiet as I'd wish etc.... But I'm here for the brakes that just collapse for no apparent reason... Even when I'm not stepping on them... Any solution? I'm thinking of flushing the old fluid and go with dot6? Maybe upgrade to high end calipers and cylinders? Anyone?
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  #2  
Old 03-18-2017, 05:42 AM
Woodtroll Woodtroll is offline
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Default Re: 2000 Ranger XLT 2.5l manual brakes collapse!

If you don't have any leaks under the truck (from a ruptured metal or rubber line or leaking wheel cylinders or calipers) then I'd say that your master cylinder is bad. Are you losing any fluid from the reservoir? If not, then definitely would think the master cylinder is bad.
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'86 2.3L 5-Speed Supercab, dark blue; usually a daily driver for 22 years. Great truck but getting tired at 355,000 miles!
'08 2.3L 5-Speed Supercab, Pueblo Gold; just acquired, hope I get 350k out of this one!
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  #3  
Old 03-20-2017, 08:10 AM
Affane78 Affane78 is offline
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Default Re: 2000 Ranger XLT 2.5l manual brakes collapse!

No I'm not seeing any leaks nowhere. It usually happens at low speeds, I'd be applying very light pressure on the pedal and suddenly I'm almost flung thru the windshield... Very annoying. Drivers behind you thinking you're some kind of psycho...I thought about replacing the hoses? Could it be? The calipers retracted with no problem when I use the c clamp to change the rotors last night... So I don't think they're seized up. I'll look into the master cylinder. Is that a diy job? Or do I need a professional shop especially the master cylinder bleeding​ process?
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Old 03-20-2017, 08:13 AM
DangerRanger37 DangerRanger37 is offline
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Affane78 View Post
No I'm not seeing any leaks nowhere. It usually happens at low speeds, I'd be applying very light pressure on the pedal and suddenly I'm almost flung thru the windshield... Very annoying. Drivers behind you thinking you're some kind of psycho...I thought about replacing the hoses? Could it be? The calipers retracted with no problem when I use the c clamp to change the rotors last night... So I don't think they're seized up. I'll look into the master cylinder. Is that a diy job? Or do I need a professional shop especially the master cylinder bleeding​ process?
Could be the wheel cylinders in the back sticking. You check the rear brakes?
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1997 Ranger XLT 4.0L 2wd 3.55 open
235/75/15- RCX leveling coils- Pro Comp AAL- 1" BL
1993 Wrangler 2.5L- Superlift 3.5"-31x10.5x15- Sold
1995 C1500 4.3L- Sold
1994 Ford Ranger 3.0L XLT- Sold
1996 Mazda B2300 SE- Sold
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  #5  
Old 03-20-2017, 11:54 AM
tomw0 tomw0 is offline
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Default Re: 2000 Ranger XLT 2.5l manual brakes collapse!

It could be the power brake booster is not kicking in at first, and then DOES SO with gusto, in effect acting as if you jammed the brake pedal fully.
There is a switch (vacuum valve) inside the booster that should open one side of the diaphragm to engine vacuum when you first push on the brake pedal. If it jams, you'll be pressing normally, and then have the assist suddenly applied.
If the booster has a leaky vacuum supply, it may close and develop vacuum, just as if the valve had opened and make the booster do its thing.
Check the booster valve, and vacuum supply hoses. You can do this while at a stop, engine running. A booster should apply by you using your hand to press the brake pedal, and should pull the pedal down further. You can also check by stepping in the brakes, engine OFF, and starting the engine. If the booster is working, the pedal will sink further down without further help by your foot, when the engine starts, develops vacuum, and enables the booster function. If no assist when the engine starts, your booster or valve is potentially brocken.
tom
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  #6  
Old 03-20-2017, 01:53 PM
Affane78 Affane78 is offline
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Default Re: 2000 Ranger XLT 2.5l manual brakes collapse!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DangerRanger37 View Post
Could be the wheel cylinders in the back sticking. You check the rear brakes?
Could be, when I got the truck the ebrake was pulled back and jammed in the release position... When I returned it to its original position (neutral) it did seize up in the rear. But now I'm only feeling it upfront. It happens more as the weather gets hotter I've noticed as well. I'm thinking of replacing calipers and hoses but I hate fumbling with diagnosis

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomw0 View Post
It could be the power brake booster is not kicking in at first, and then DOES SO with gusto, in effect acting as if you jammed the brake pedal fully.
There is a switch (vacuum valve) inside the booster that should open one side of the diaphragm to engine vacuum when you first push on the brake pedal. If it jams, you'll be pressing normally, and then have the assist suddenly applied.
If the booster has a leaky vacuum supply, it may close and develop vacuum, just as if the valve had opened and make the booster do its thing.
Check the booster valve, and vacuum supply hoses. You can do this while at a stop, engine running. A booster should apply by you using your hand to press the brake pedal, and should pull the pedal down further. You can also check by stepping in the brakes, engine OFF, and starting the engine. If the booster is working, the pedal will sink further down without further help by your foot, when the engine starts, develops vacuum, and enables the booster function. If no assist when the engine starts, your booster or valve is potentially brocken.
tom
That makes a lotta sense. I don't think the booster is all the way out but it may be on its way... It'll pass those tests you mentioned but still will lock up half the time... I wanna go by the most logical and hopefully cheapest way to fix it rather than throwing parts at this thing
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  #7  
Old 03-20-2017, 03:57 PM
Affane78 Affane78 is offline
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Default Re: 2000 Ranger XLT 2.5l manual brakes collapse!

I just spoke with a Ford tech at my job and straight away he said master cylinder... And I'll have to change the abs controller assembly as well...
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  #8  
Old 03-20-2017, 05:16 PM
Woodtroll Woodtroll is offline
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Default Re: 2000 Ranger XLT 2.5l manual brakes collapse!

I apologize, I misunderstood what you meant when you said your brakes were "collapsing". What I was picturing was the pedal falling to the floor with no resistance, which would be either a blown line, wheel cylinder, or a master cylinder problem.

It still could be a master cylinder, but I agree with the others that the booster may be suspect.

Good luck!
Regan
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'86 2.3L 5-Speed Supercab, dark blue; usually a daily driver for 22 years. Great truck but getting tired at 355,000 miles!
'08 2.3L 5-Speed Supercab, Pueblo Gold; just acquired, hope I get 350k out of this one!
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  #9  
Old 03-20-2017, 06:57 PM
Affane78 Affane78 is offline
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Default Re: 2000 Ranger XLT 2.5l manual brakes collapse!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodtroll View Post
I apologize, I misunderstood what you meant when you said your brakes were "collapsing". What I was picturing was the pedal falling to the floor with no resistance, which would be either a blown line, wheel cylinder, or a master cylinder problem.

It still could be a master cylinder, but I agree with the others that the booster may be suspect.

Good luck!
Regan
I'm confused lol the Ford tech suggested to replace both the master cylinder and abs modulator valve because the seals will fail and find their way into the abs MV supposedly... I think I'm going to try and get a new master cylinder and go to the junkyard and try to find the MV cuz it's pretty expensive new and I got a lot more to spend on other areas to have the truck where I want it. Looking thru various threads this seems to be a common issue and so far I haven't found a concise answer which is concerning.either way I'll keep u guys posted. Thx all for your input. I'm doing a timing belt soon I hope you'll be there!
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  #10  
Old 03-24-2017, 06:49 PM
Affane78 Affane78 is offline
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Default Re: 2000 Ranger XLT 2.5l manual brakes collapse!

So today we replaced the master cylinder and flushed all lines. We also back flushed proportioning valve and abs unit. Put everything back together. It improved greatly in that the random braking didn't happen thus far but at low speeds the front calipers seem to clunk upon depressing the brake pedal. Some BMW tech told me that I needed to replace the calipers because the seals are probably damaged as a result of the contaminated brake fluid (yes the fluid was black...). So far no locking up at the back hopefully things stay that way. The truck moves so much more freely it's delightful. So any suggestions of good durable calipers under $150??
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  #11  
Old Yesterday, 05:50 AM
Affane78 Affane78 is offline
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Default Re: 2000 Ranger XLT 2.5l manual brakes collapse!

Well spoke too soon. The issue came back with a vengeance! I think the truck ran well because the entire time I was doing the master cylinder job I had the battery disconnected and perhaps the ECM was reset. I can't find no other logical explanation for why the issue seemed to have vanished for about 20 miles or so of driving and came back worse after a new master cylinder and fresh fluid. The issue is definitely electronic not mechanical. Some suggested just bypassing the entire abs system but haven't yet seen a good tutorial about it. There are two lines at the actuator: one from the master cylinder and one going towards towards the calipers. I figured if I can get a female "connector" to join the two I would have bypassed the abs pump. I tried pulling the fuse out, disconnecting the abs connector, disconnecting the VSS but none of it cured the issue. I know I'll need new rear brakes because of the grabbing they have worn unevenly...
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  #12  
Old Yesterday, 09:03 AM
tomw0 tomw0 is offline
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Default Re: 2000 Ranger XLT 2.5l manual brakes collapse!

Ima gonna bet you need to have the ABS flushed and bled. I do not think the average user can make the ABS do its thing without a special hookup. Given that, it can have air bubbles inside that make brake application 'funny'.
tom
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  #13  
Old Yesterday, 05:31 PM
Affane78 Affane78 is offline
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Default Re: 2000 Ranger XLT 2.5l manual brakes collapse!

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomw0 View Post
Ima gonna bet you need to have the ABS flushed and bled. I do not think the average user can make the ABS do its thing without a special hookup. Given that, it can have air bubbles inside that make brake application 'funny'.
tom

Well Tom great news! I found the culprit: the drum adjuster!! What I thought was a clunk or thud coming from the front end was actually coming from the rear, particularly the driver side. I messed with the adjuster and poof no more issues.. I'm still driving paranoid cuz I'm so used to this nightmare but it has not resurfaced. I'm going to overhaul the entire rear brakes anyway. I'm sorry if my description of the issue was misleading. One thing I learned in auto mechanics issues are usually far simpler than we are comfortable with. This is another great lesson for me. To all those who followed this thread I thank you for your interest and help. I'm posting this to also help anyone with a similar issue. Check your drum brakes... Cheers! Off to the next topic
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