Do I really need a new radiator? - Page 2

RoberticusMaximus · #16 01-13-2017, 07:32 AM

not my thread, but thanks for that post soledad!
brings up a thought. harbor_handed, if your truck came with ford gold coolant, and it now has green universal, then some other repair could have been done to your cooling system before you bought it. we bought a 06 f350 with the 6.0 that had green coolant. turns out that the PO tried to 'fix' a leaking egr cooler without removing the part & taking care of it properly. just sayin lol

Tyler46 · #17 01-13-2017, 12:21 PM

Well, the thermostat controls the temperature of the water inside the motor, doesn't matter if it's -10 degrees or 125 degrees, the thermostat keeps it at 190.

Keep in mind these radiators that Ford used on the 2.3 is the same radiator they used on the 3.0 and 4.0, so the Duratec is way overcooled. But, better safe than sorry. Thermostat failed and stuck open, too much cooling power = motor runs cool.

I have a custom Aluminum 2-row radiator in mine, probably triple the cooling power of the stock plastic Kermit the frog shit. I could easily keep a small block at a cool temperature, but again, doesn't matter how cold the radiator is, the motor will always be at 190.

Kind of rare to blow a head gasket on these, I've heard more stories of the rod getting shot out of the side of the block more than a head gasket.

Harbor_Handed · #18 01-13-2017, 03:17 PM

Yes, thanks for that post Soledad! I really appreciate you sharing your knowledge on this forum, I know everyone gets a lot out of your posts, myself included.

Your point #3 about the hose on the side of the reservoir, where you write "in a good system there will be movement in that tank because that small hose is always flowing coolant," it makes me wonder if the "movement" is what I'm seeing. It's not a rolling boil, it's just some trembling inside that creates tiny bubbles. I also read the following post on another forum, in a thread about someone having bubbles in their coolant:

Quote:

Are you sure it is bubbling and not the two small coolant return lines returning the coolant back to the degas tank? That can look like bubbling.

Try this. With the truck running and at operating temperature, clamp off the two small cooling lines (one from the intake manifold and one from the radiator top) and see if you still see bubbling. I thought I had bubbling also but it turned out to be returning coolant."

I wonder if that might be all it is, just returning coolant flowing into the side of the reservoir and creating some "turbulence" inside, compounded by the vibration of the engine....creating little bubbles. I tried to squeeze the hose to stop the flow and see if that would stop the bubbles, but it's too hard, i can't compress it with my hand.

RoberticusMaximus: Thanks, that could definitely be true. I don't know anything about the history of the vehicle.

Tyler46: I'm now about 80% certain that I need a new thermostat. Just bit the bullet and ordered the Motorcraft RT1157.

Guys, I followed my lower radiator hose and saw where the two hoses are clamped to the nipples of the thermostat housing. Sweet Lord, it's really down in there! It's going to be like deep sea diving for me to get down in there. Does anyone know, can I do this myself without having to remove anything? Any tips regarding technique or tools I'll need? I know the bolts are 8mm. Can I use a box wrench or will I need to get a swivel socket? Any tips appreciated. Just like with the intake manifold, I'm going to try to do it myself first. lol

Tyler46 · #19 01-13-2017, 04:25 PM

Pretty sure it's a straight shot getting that thing out. Get like a 12" extension and get it in there. Once you take the hoses off and push them out of the way it's fine.

Soledad · #20 01-13-2017, 04:41 PM

Harbor,

Yeah, changing that thermostat isn't too bad. The hardest part of changing it out for me was getting the spring clamps removed and put back on the two hoses. I don't know why but they fought me pretty good.

You'll need a ratchet and some extensions, the 8mm socket (short or long) and a pair of pliers (needle nose, slip joint or channel locks).

Here's what you'll need to do:

1. Drain all of the coolant via the valve at the bottom drivers side of the radiator. That will take some time.
2. Then remove the electrical connector from the thermostat.
3. Then remove the spring clamps from the hoses on the thermostat.
NOTE - I remove my power steering switch connector wire for a little more hand room.
4. Then remove the three bolts holding the thermostat on and pull the thermostat out. I like to use a couple of extensions on my sockets to make removing the bolts easier.
5. Now ensure the new thermostat has a rubber o-ring and install it.
6. Reattach the two hoses and their spring clamps.
7. Reconnect the thermostat electrical connector.
8. NOW...take a moment and remove the upper radiator hose from the long metal tube that it's attached to. Check inside that metal tube to see if it is rusty (see below). If it is then that will cause problems. I suggest this because I had large chunks of rust lodged in my water pump/thermostat area of the engine block because of that steel tube. If that tube is rusty inside it will need to be replaced. If it looks good then reattach the hose and clamp.
9. Then refill the cooling system with the coolant.
10. Finally, start the truck with the coolant tank cap off and let it idle for about 15 minutes to burp the air out of the system all the while checking for leaks at the thermostat or hoses. Once it looks like most of the bubbles, burping has stopped and there are no leaks then put the cap back on and stop the engine. Let the truck cool all the way down and then check the coolant level and top it off if necessary. Then take the truck for good drive.

This was my tube. The entire inside was coated in a thick, flaky rust.

Oh, and this is the correct burping procedure should you want to try it. I really don't think it's necessary though. But it's good to have it just in case.

1. Fill the system through the degas bottle cap to the max fill level.
2. Start the engine and run for approximately ten seconds at 2,500 rpm to prime the heater circuit then turn the engine off.
3. Top off the coolant level to 0.6 inch above the max fill level.
4. Install the degas bottle cap.
5. Start the engine and hold at 2,500 rpm engine speed for approximately eight minutes until the thermostat opens.
6. Maintain 2,500 rpm engine speed for an additional three minutes.
7. Increase engine speed to 4,000 rpm and hold for five seconds.
8. Return engine speed to 2,500 rpm and hold for an additional three minutes.
9. Repeat the previous two steps.
10. Stop the engine and check for leaks.
11. Verify correct fluid level after engine cools for 20 minutes. Top off the degas bottle to "max" line.

Tyler46 · #21 01-13-2017, 05:17 PM

Look into one of these too.

Google Image:

image-921974883.jpg

Soledad · #22 01-13-2017, 05:19 PM

Ha! I actually have one of those on my Amazon list. Just haven't pulled the trigger on it yet. But yeah, that would make removing those darned spring clamps muuuuuch easier.

Tyler46 · #23 01-13-2017, 05:21 PM

Can't tell you how much of my life I've wasted fucking around with pliers. Best purchase I've ever made.

cowboybilly9mile · #24 01-13-2017, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyler46

Look into one of these too.

https://youtu.be/tRzrpvTgTIc

Google Image:

Attachment 151451

Awesome tool, glad you mentioned it so I didn't have to.

Tyler46 · #25 01-13-2017, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cowboybilly9mile

awesome tool, glad you mentioned it so i didn't have to.

image-2389591891.jpg

Harbor_Handed · #26 01-14-2017, 11:28 AM

Thanks for the instructions, Soledad, that's very helpful. And thank you Tyler46 for the tool recommendation. That looks like it would come in handy for this job.

Soledad, where is that pipe located on the upper hose - back near the firewall? I have read that coolant/antifreeze prohibits corrosion so I wonder why that pipe got so rusted out.

It looks like I might want to remove that big, black plastic thing that hooks onto the throttle body hose. Removing that black plastic thing looks like it would make access to the thermostat housing much easier so I might try to take it off.

Soledad · #27 01-14-2017, 11:39 AM

Here's the steel tube I was talking about. It's right next to their hand. I think mine was rusty due to very poor upkeep and maintenance by the previous owner.

It's actually not all one piece. The black, steel tube inserts into another aluminum tube that runs to the back of the head.

And here's a pic of my engine. I outlined the tube in yellow:

Oh, and I didn't need to remove my intake hose for the thermostat replacement. As you can see, I don't have those large resonator boxes attached to the intake hose like others have.

Harbor_Handed · #28 01-14-2017, 11:47 AM

Thanks, Soledad, that helps a lot!

Soledad · #29 01-14-2017, 11:56 AM

Oh, and here's a Ford diagram that someone did that shows coolant flow:

And then one I did to try and make it clearer:

Harbor_Handed · #30 01-15-2017, 08:26 AM

Thanks Soledad.
Now that I've been learning about how radiators work over the last few days, I find it ridiculous & offensive that the "master technician" at Mazda would try to convince me that my radiator was broken by telling me the left side is hotter than the right side. Of course the left side is hotter, that's where the hot water from the engine is entering the radiator, and the cooled water is exiting from the right side so of course that side is cooler!

So many mechanics count on the ignorance of women about cars to sell them repairs that they don't truly need. I no longer agree to any repair until I research it thoroughly myself. I'm really tempted to shoot off an angry email to the Mazda dealership but I don't want to burn any bridges (if I ever need to use them for a repair in the future).

Anyway, thanks again for all the info, Soledad. I feel very ready now to drain my coolant, replace my thermostat, refill & burp. ;-)