Ford Ranger Forum - Forums for Ford Ranger enthusiasts!

Go Back   Ford Ranger Forum - Forums for Ford Ranger enthusiasts! > >
Forgot Password? Join Us!

Welcome to Ford Ranger Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread

  #1  
Old 12-07-2015, 07:39 PM
GSF1200S GSF1200S is offline
Wrist Twister
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 995
Default Duratec pinging like crazy...

Yesterday I decided to turn my radio off and have a listen. Im ashamed to say I havent done this in a few weeks, so hopefully I havent done any permanent damage. Truck is off the road now until I find out the cause.

Windows up radio off blower fan off, I can hear the engine ping whenever sudden changes in throttle position occur, or when climbing hills. Currently running 87 octane, but the duratec shouldnt require a higher octane. This only occurs when its warmed up- it runs perfect cold. No CEL light, no codes, and no pending codes. It is pretty subtle.

As a matter of maintenance and ensuring it lasts for another 100k miles, I have done the following within the last 10k miles:
- New coil pack (motorcraft)
- New plug wires (motorcraft)
- New spark plugs (autolite double platinum- verified gap all .044)
- New fuel pump (motorcraft)
- New fuel filter (motorcraft)
- Cleaned MAF and MAP sensors
- New upstream o2 sensor (motorcraft)
- New intake manifold (motorcraft) due to IMRC crap

Cooling system is in good shape- needle never goes above halfway. Cylinder head temperature sensor reports between 240-265 deg F, but remember this is NOT coolant temperature. I have an ultraguage, and heres some relevant info:
- LTFT (long term fuel trim) at idle is -4.7, and close to 0.0 nearly everywhere else. STFT fluctuates as it should.
- Timing advance seems fairly normal- around 8-12 degrees at idle. It might go way up at cruise, but then I read that is mostly for fuel economy.
- MAF reports seemingly accurate flowrates and ambient air temperatures.
- Reported fuel economy seems normal.

Some things I tried:
- Unplug the MAF sensor so the computer would revert to preprogrammed (and richer) fuel maps- still pings.
- Unplug the MAP sensor as im unsure what it does exactly. Engine started running goofy, but still pings.
- Unplug the TPS; I knew this wouldnt solve the ping and it didnt.
- Seafoam in the tank, and sucked some in via the brake booster line (carefully). Didnt really burn off that many carbon deposits. Still pings.
- Pulled the plugs- no sign of detonation on the plugs, and all but #4 are a perfect brown. #4 is a little lighter than perfect, but certainly not that lean. Carbon deposits are very minimal.
- Put solid pressure on the clutch peddle in case I was mistaking throwout bearing rattle for engine ping. Its a ping.
**EDIT**- Disconnected battery and turned headlight switch on for an hour (to reset fuel maps and force the PCM to relearn); still pings.

I dont know where to go from here and could really use some sage advice from you guys- im over my head. I would try to warm it up and have a friend tap the valve cover to see if the knock sensor has the computer back the timing off, but as Ive read ford doesnt seem to solve detonation this way? Im also wondering if the thermostat was replaced before I bought it and it innately is running hotter? I see a number of 208 degree thermostats mentioned on Rock Auto, so maybe one of them was put in? Where on the temp gauge does your Rangers run?

Any ideas would be really welcome
__________________
2002 Ford Ranger XLT Supercab, 2.3L Duratec I4, 5-speed manual, 4.10 gears, ~100,000 miles
Power nothing with air conditioning; crank windows for life!
Throttle cable mod, retained accessory power mod, 2006 thermostat w/resistor mod
Headlight relay harness, Philips xtreme-vision bulbs
P235/75R15 Michelin LTX M/S2s

Last edited by GSF1200S; 12-07-2015 at 07:43 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 12-08-2015, 08:10 AM
tomw0 tomw0 is offline
Ford Ranger Driver
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 866
Default Re: Duratec pinging like crazy...

I would be looking at the EGR system. It will help prevent pinging at cruise, that goes away with a little throttle application, then comes back as you let off the gas to go back to the previous speed. If the tubing is plugged, or the valve passage muddled with carbon and 'stuff', it won't flow as expected. The DPFE would read pressure that is not caused by Umhh, I forget how the DPFE works, but it sees pressure in the exhaust and on the other side of the tube leading to the EGR vavle, limited by a drilled or specific diameter restriction. If the system is dirty plugged, it could be failing to add that 'inert' gas, or flowing as much as expected, thus the pinging.
tom
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 12-08-2015, 10:24 AM
Sintari Sintari is offline
Liking the Ford Ranger Forum
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 19
Default Re: Duratec pinging like crazy...

Almost sure it's not lifters. It's most likely the intake manifold flappers. Mine does 2500rpms and lower. Check this link. http://www.ranger forums .com/2-3l-2...-going-138299/

----------
__________________
2002 2.3 xtra cab, 31" tires , 4:10 gears
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 12-08-2015, 10:47 AM
R4u2 R4u2 is offline
The Old Man...
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 327
Default Re: Duratec pinging like crazy...

Don't know if the 2002 uses a cam position sensor, but I had a similar issues with my 96 and the cam position sensor was my issue.
__________________
96 Ranger Ext 3.0 | 04 Ram 2500 4x4 Quad 5.9 D | 85 Chev Short bd | 69 Vett Convt 427 WIP | 06 325i, 08 5501, 08 X5 & 06 M5
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 12-08-2015, 11:38 AM
riscorpian riscorpian is offline
The Projectionator
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 861
Default Re: Duratec pinging like crazy...

The Duratec does have a single cam position sensor on the intake side of the valve cover. It needs to calibrate itself before it can do anything though. Try finding an empty road where you can get up to around 60mph, then just let off the gas. Let it coast down without any braking to around 30mph, then speed back up and do it again once or twice more. That'll give the PCM the last bit of data it needs before it can start relying on the misfire monitor. If you have a scan tool capable of grabbing MODE6 data, you can totally check if any "misfire events" have been stored. This will help narrow down which cylinder is the cause, if any.

Also, can you elaborate on the exact noise? The Duratec is infamous for being disturbingly noisy. I've heard of people taking it to the dealership over scary noises, only to be refused and told that it's perfectly normal. Remember, the valvetrain doesn't use lifters. It's just tappets that seem to fall out of spec out of nowhere. This won't cause any problem, but it will make the valves get really noisy all of a sudden. Adding a little bit more oil might help feed them more under heavy load and quiet them down. How does the level look on your dipstick?
__________________
2003 Ford Ranger XLT
2.3L I4 Duratec DOHC, 5R44E 5-speed auto, RWD, 7.5" Open w/ 4.10 Ratio, Gibson split-rear catback
Sonic Blue Pearl with dark gray trim
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 12-08-2015, 01:33 PM
GSF1200S GSF1200S is offline
Wrist Twister
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 995
Default Re: Duratec pinging like crazy...

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomw0 View Post
I would be looking at the EGR system. It will help prevent pinging at cruise, that goes away with a little throttle application, then comes back as you let off the gas to go back to the previous speed. If the tubing is plugged, or the valve passage muddled with carbon and 'stuff', it won't flow as expected. The DPFE would read pressure that is not caused by Umhh, I forget how the DPFE works, but it sees pressure in the exhaust and on the other side of the tube leading to the EGR vavle, limited by a drilled or specific diameter restriction. If the system is dirty plugged, it could be failing to add that 'inert' gas, or flowing as much as expected, thus the pinging.
tom
Yeah, I had read about EGR being a potential cause. Based on carbon buildup noted (not very much) and the fact that I have no codes, I figured EGR was fine. Still- given that I still have a ping- I need to check this. The real pain is that the EGR is sandwiched between the engine and firewall- the ford shop manual mentions the transmission needs to be removed in order to remove the EGR! Riscorpian I believe mentioned you can finagle the EGR out by removing exhaust components, so if I cant solve it another way, Ill have to go this route.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sintari View Post
Almost sure it's not lifters. It's most likely the intake manifold flappers. Mine does 2500rpms and lower. Check this link. http://www.ranger forums .com/2-3l-2...-going-138299/

----------
Yeah, I have a new intake manifold for this reason. Good letting me know tho- I couldnt believe the noise that manifold made.
Quote:
Originally Posted by R4u2 View Post
Don't know if the 2002 uses a cam position sensor, but I had a similar issues with my 96 and the cam position sensor was my issue.
I didnt think the duratec even had a camshaft position sensor, but with your mention and the mention below, I will look into it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by riscorpian View Post
The Duratec does have a single cam position sensor on the intake side of the valve cover. It needs to calibrate itself before it can do anything though. Try finding an empty road where you can get up to around 60mph, then just let off the gas. Let it coast down without any braking to around 30mph, then speed back up and do it again once or twice more. That'll give the PCM the last bit of data it needs before it can start relying on the misfire monitor. If you have a scan tool capable of grabbing MODE6 data, you can totally check if any "misfire events" have been stored. This will help narrow down which cylinder is the cause, if any.

Also, can you elaborate on the exact noise? The Duratec is infamous for being disturbingly noisy. I've heard of people taking it to the dealership over scary noises, only to be refused and told that it's perfectly normal. Remember, the valvetrain doesn't use lifters. It's just tappets that seem to fall out of spec out of nowhere. This won't cause any problem, but it will make the valves get really noisy all of a sudden. Adding a little bit more oil might help feed them more under heavy load and quiet them down. How does the level look on your dipstick?
I only have the ultragauge. I might pick up one of those bluetooth obd2 plugs if Torque or some other smartphone/computer app can monitor misfire counts. The engine runs incredibly smooth- Ive seen other duratecs in rangers and they were rough by comparison. That said, I know misfires at higher RPMs are impossible to feel, so..

I do know the duratec is a noisy bastid- I have a tappet tick that annoys me greatly only when the windows are down and im next to a building- it gets much quieter if I run 5w30 oil, though I have 5w20 now. I know this is ping- marbles in a tin can. Its also consistent with ping in terms of how it comes about- sudden changes in throttle position and under load (especially up a hill). Its so prominent in frequency (though quiet in that I cant hear it if the windows are down or radio is on) that Ive even entertained the idea of bad gas- maybe I should throw in a bottle of octane booster and fill up with premium at another station and see if that helps, then switch to 87 at the next tank to see if the ping comes back. Ive been hesitant to do that in case the ping remains and I take it to the dealer for a reflash of the PCM- id rather have 87 in it when they flash it.

You guys have given me some good things to check/try. Let me give it a go and ill report back. Thanks..

**EDIT** I check the oil once a week. Its above the cross-thatched area and hasnt lost any over this oil change interval (bout 2k miles so far). I do have a seep at the timing cover that likes to cover the crankshaft position sensor in oil- could this cause an issue?
__________________
2002 Ford Ranger XLT Supercab, 2.3L Duratec I4, 5-speed manual, 4.10 gears, ~100,000 miles
Power nothing with air conditioning; crank windows for life!
Throttle cable mod, retained accessory power mod, 2006 thermostat w/resistor mod
Headlight relay harness, Philips xtreme-vision bulbs
P235/75R15 Michelin LTX M/S2s

Last edited by GSF1200S; 12-08-2015 at 01:37 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 12-08-2015, 02:40 PM
GSF1200S GSF1200S is offline
Wrist Twister
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 995
Default Re: Duratec pinging like crazy...

Can one of you guys with the duratec tell me what your coolant temperature head sensor reports (to a scantool/ultragauge/etc), and where on the temperature gauge on the cluster your truck runs when warmed up (midgauge, etc)?

I went looking for the camshaft postion sensor and decided to look at the thermostat as well. The part number sticker on it reads: 1S7G-AM LF01. Looking on Rock Auto, I found a Stant thermostat with the exact part number on the sticker- its a 208 degree thermostat! The OEM is 190 degrees!

Heres a fact I didnt think was related- my truck has slowly lost coolant. I mean very slowly- over a few thousand miles its only gone down from max to halfway between min and max. Ive noted little coolant stains down the back of the coolant bottle, and this despite the truck passing a compression check, coolant system pressure check, and cap check.

What do you guys think about this theory: the coolant stains are due to excess pressure caused by a thermostat thats too hot venting at the cap. The truck didnt ping during the summer due to summer blend fuel. I hadnt filled my tank for over a month- once I put some gas in that was winter blend fuel, it started pinging. Am I grasping at straws here? Does anyone else with a duratec have a sticker with that part number on their thermostat housing? If anyone is willing to take a look, I would really really appreciate it.

This is what I hate about owning a used vehicle- dealing with the dumb shit others have done. I cant believe I didnt check this sooner..
__________________
2002 Ford Ranger XLT Supercab, 2.3L Duratec I4, 5-speed manual, 4.10 gears, ~100,000 miles
Power nothing with air conditioning; crank windows for life!
Throttle cable mod, retained accessory power mod, 2006 thermostat w/resistor mod
Headlight relay harness, Philips xtreme-vision bulbs
P235/75R15 Michelin LTX M/S2s
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 12-09-2015, 05:20 AM
tomw0 tomw0 is offline
Ford Ranger Driver
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 866
Default Re: Duratec pinging like crazy...

I would have gone for the 'winter' gas mix change as more readily vaporized parts are added to help cold startup. They could be lighting off too quickly. I had pinging whenever I'd start to be 'cruising', rather than accelerating or decelerating, that would quiet down immediately if it opened the throttle a bit more, or closed it a bit.
I don't remember what I did to make it go quiet, but it did. I think it was fuel vapor pressure(ease of evaporation for cold temps..) that was a factor as it did go away. It was a goo string ping that I could hear with the windows up. I could make it come and go by moving the gas pedal, as noted.
I would consider drizzling water into the intake with the engine running to 'steam' off any excess carbon buildup on the pistons or combustion chamber. Another alternative is an Italian tune-up. Rev the beans out of it... unless you do that already, in which case it won't help.
tom
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 12-12-2015, 06:43 PM
GSF1200S GSF1200S is offline
Wrist Twister
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 995
Default Re: Duratec pinging like crazy...

Thanks. Went ahead and sprayed some warm water in the intake while running. Didn't get much if any carbon out the tailpipe, but perhaps it helped.

Much to my disappointment the part number on the sticker of the new motorcraft thermostat was the same as I had posted above. Oh well- that was the only cooling system part left I wanted to swap out so its done.

As a test, I took the truck to a different gas station and put 6 gallons of 93 octane in it (truck was on E). My thought was if i had gotten some bad gas (like the equivalent of 83 octane), the 93 would bring the octane back up to 87 or more. The pinging has completely stopped.

My main gas station is a Shell, so I'd be really surprised if it turns out I got bad gas. When I hit E again I'm going to put a full tank of 87 in and see if the ping returns. If it does I'll pull the exhaust and see if I can get at the EGR valve to check that. Beyond that, I'd prolly need to go to a dealer to have them reflash the pcm.

I'll post here when I find out something in case anyone else has similar issues in the future...
__________________
2002 Ford Ranger XLT Supercab, 2.3L Duratec I4, 5-speed manual, 4.10 gears, ~100,000 miles
Power nothing with air conditioning; crank windows for life!
Throttle cable mod, retained accessory power mod, 2006 thermostat w/resistor mod
Headlight relay harness, Philips xtreme-vision bulbs
P235/75R15 Michelin LTX M/S2s
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 12-12-2015, 07:31 PM
Tyler46 Tyler46 is offline
Ford Ranger Dismantler
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 7,011
Default

Hm, I can double check my thermostat if you still need it. I'm subscribing to this, it may help me if I run into the issue.
__________________
2007 Regular Cab - 2.3 DOHC - 5 Speed Auto - 4.10 Gears - Maxtrac 7" Lift - Fiberwerx 3" Fenders - Bilstein 5100 Series - 15x10 Ultra 164's - 35x12.50x15 Red Letters - Custom dents

Quote:
Originally Posted by guell View Post
People like him make me believe that birth control needs to be put in the public water supply
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 12-12-2015, 08:28 PM
GSF1200S GSF1200S is offline
Wrist Twister
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 995
Default Re: Duratec pinging like crazy...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyler46 View Post
Hm, I can double check my thermostat if you still need it. I'm subscribing to this, it may help me if I run into the issue.
Nah, already got the new one in. Thanks though
__________________
2002 Ford Ranger XLT Supercab, 2.3L Duratec I4, 5-speed manual, 4.10 gears, ~100,000 miles
Power nothing with air conditioning; crank windows for life!
Throttle cable mod, retained accessory power mod, 2006 thermostat w/resistor mod
Headlight relay harness, Philips xtreme-vision bulbs
P235/75R15 Michelin LTX M/S2s
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 12-12-2015, 09:12 PM
Tyler46 Tyler46 is offline
Ford Ranger Dismantler
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 7,011
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GSF1200S View Post
Nah, already got the new one in. Thanks though
Gotcha, if it's a Motorcraft unit I'm assuming it's a 190 degree stat right?

And if there's anything you want me to try or reference on my motor, let me know.
__________________
2007 Regular Cab - 2.3 DOHC - 5 Speed Auto - 4.10 Gears - Maxtrac 7" Lift - Fiberwerx 3" Fenders - Bilstein 5100 Series - 15x10 Ultra 164's - 35x12.50x15 Red Letters - Custom dents

Quote:
Originally Posted by guell View Post
People like him make me believe that birth control needs to be put in the public water supply
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 12-13-2015, 01:53 PM
GSF1200S GSF1200S is offline
Wrist Twister
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 995
Default Re: Duratec pinging like crazy...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyler46 View Post
Gotcha, if it's a Motorcraft unit I'm assuming it's a 190 degree stat right?

And if there's anything you want me to try or reference on my motor, let me know.
Yup, got a 190 Motorcraft thermostat off rock auto. If you ever have to change it, make sure you don't accidently get some aftermarket 208 one- can't believe they even make them.

Don't think I need any references now. If you ever get that ultragauge though I wouldn't mind knowing what engine temperature it gives you just as a comparison. Mine's 240-265 (head temp is what's reported).

Since we have the same motor let me know if you need info as well.
__________________
2002 Ford Ranger XLT Supercab, 2.3L Duratec I4, 5-speed manual, 4.10 gears, ~100,000 miles
Power nothing with air conditioning; crank windows for life!
Throttle cable mod, retained accessory power mod, 2006 thermostat w/resistor mod
Headlight relay harness, Philips xtreme-vision bulbs
P235/75R15 Michelin LTX M/S2s
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 12-13-2015, 02:16 PM
Tyler46 Tyler46 is offline
Ford Ranger Dismantler
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 7,011
Default

Wait a second. On my Ultragauge I swear my engine temp is like 188 usually...

----------

Alright, well you've motivated me to get up and go do something productive. Let me drive my truck and get it up to operating temp and I'll post pics of my gauge.
__________________
2007 Regular Cab - 2.3 DOHC - 5 Speed Auto - 4.10 Gears - Maxtrac 7" Lift - Fiberwerx 3" Fenders - Bilstein 5100 Series - 15x10 Ultra 164's - 35x12.50x15 Red Letters - Custom dents

Quote:
Originally Posted by guell View Post
People like him make me believe that birth control needs to be put in the public water supply
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 12-13-2015, 03:20 PM
GSF1200S GSF1200S is offline
Wrist Twister
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 995
Default Re: Duratec pinging like crazy...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyler46 View Post
Wait a second. On my Ultragauge I swear my engine temp is like 188 usually...

----------

Alright, well you've motivated me to get up and go do something productive. Let me drive my truck and get it up to operating temp and I'll post pics of my gauge.
Well I'm not the first person who's noted 240-265, so either its normal or more than one person is having serious overheating issues. The gauge on the cluster reads from a temperature sender that checks coolant temperature, while the ultragauge gets its temp from the cylinder head temperature sensor. It will take a good 20 minutes of driving for it to get up there.

Next time you drive it take a look- I'd be interested to hear what yours settles in at
__________________
2002 Ford Ranger XLT Supercab, 2.3L Duratec I4, 5-speed manual, 4.10 gears, ~100,000 miles
Power nothing with air conditioning; crank windows for life!
Throttle cable mod, retained accessory power mod, 2006 thermostat w/resistor mod
Headlight relay harness, Philips xtreme-vision bulbs
P235/75R15 Michelin LTX M/S2s
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Is what I hear pinging danray35e 3.0 Vulcan Tech 15 03-28-2015 06:58 PM
2.5L pinging Gary H 4-Cylinder Tech 21 04-24-2013 06:18 AM
Sometimes I'm girl crazy.. right now I'm grille crazy. uh0h50 General Ford Ranger Discussion 22 01-27-2013 11:40 PM
Pinging under a load scorp2002 General Ford Ranger Discussion 0 07-14-2011 05:08 PM
Pinging DieselBrad 4.0 SOHC / 4.0 OHV Tech 9 09-06-2010 05:19 PM