Duratec pinging like crazy... - Page 2

Tyler46 · #16 12-13-2015, 04:08 PM

Here's something that's been siting in my photobucket. This is the day I got the Ultragauge. I drove my truck and got home, hooked up the gauge and let it idle.

Tyler46 · #17 12-13-2015, 05:08 PM

Started my truck, let it idle for a couple minutes, then I drive to where I needed to go. Took a lap around the block, even ran my RPMs up to 6 grand a couple times to try and heat it up a bit.

I took this when my coolant temp gauge just reached the normal range.

This is while driving (sorry - blurry)

And when I finally got to the store and parked this is what I'm sitting at.

Come to think of it, I've never seen it jump above 190.

GSF1200S · #18 12-13-2015, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyler46

Started my truck, let it idle for a couple minutes, then I drive to where I needed to go. Took a lap around the block, even ran my RPMs up to 6 grand a couple times to try and heat it up a bit.

I took this when my coolant temp gauge just reached the normal range.

This is while driving (sorry - blurry)

And when I finally got to the store and parked this is what I'm sitting at.

Come to think of it, I've never seen it jump above 190.

Now that is strange. Idk wtf to think now

I would think if my coolant temp actually ran 260 degrees Id have a seized engine...

These links are similar to my deal:
http://www.ultra-gauge.com/UltraGaug...hp?topic=581.0
http://www.ranger forums .com/2-3l-2-...-2-3-a-106888/
http://www.therangerstation.com/foru...ad.php?t=12197
http://www.ranger forums .com/snapsho...g-gages-79405/

Maybe sometime between 02 and 07 Ford changed which sensor fed the OBD2 data? Im going to have to go get a infrared heat gun and double check my temps, but it seems fine.

Anyways, thanks for the info- got some checkin to do now

Tyler46 · #19 12-13-2015, 05:37 PM

Yeah, that makes sense. Maybe my Ultragauge is reading literal coolant temps from the radiator (or somewhere along the water lines)

Which would explain it. I don't imagine my cylinder head running at the same temp as my radiator. Maybe 260 degrees isn't all that high.

RB7 Ranger · #20 12-13-2015, 06:14 PM

You run it out down to E much? pretty hard on a fuel pump, the fuel is the lubricant and coolant for the electric pump, if you have a pump going away It may show up as a lean condition intermittently, also hot spots form in the cylinder head when an air bubble /coolant loss takes place allowing cyl. combustion temps to have isolated increase resulting in ping. A DPFE will not always throw a code when failing same with Mass air

GSF1200S · #21 12-13-2015, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RB7 Ranger

You run it out down to E much? pretty hard on a fuel pump, the fuel is the lubricant and coolant for the electric pump, if you have a pump going away It may show up as a lean condition intermittently, also hot spots form in the cylinder head when an air bubble /coolant loss takes place allowing cyl. combustion temps to have isolated increase resulting in ping. A DPFE will not always throw a code when failing same with Mass air

I dont run it down to E often. Usually fill up when I hit 1/4 tank. Im only running low this time in case I have to reflash the PCM- I didnt want to put a full tank of premium in only to have it not stop the ping.

The pump is new, so if the ping comes back when I switch back to 87 im going to rent a fuel pressure tester and verify its good (its a motorcraft pump/assembly).

Im not sure on the coolant loss- ill see now that the thermostat is new whether I have any more. The cooling system is basically new, and it passes a pressure test (less than 1.5psi loss over 12 hours) so it shouldnt lose any more.

I unplugged the MAF and it still pinged. With the MAF unplugged I can only assume that the computer switched to preprogrammed fuel maps which should be rich. If I get ping on 87, everything to do with the EGR will be the second thing I check after fuel pressure. Thanks for mentioning the DPFE sensor- ill have to check that before I pull the exhaust and EGR.

This is getting complicated- I really hope it was bad gas, but Id almost bet that I still have the issue. Just my luck

RB7 Ranger · #22 12-14-2015, 05:59 AM

if the STFT is indicating lean (double digits) during closed loop is considered a lean condition
When you monitor the DPFE at cruise ,a closed valve voltage will be about 1 volt if not flowing EGR gasses
and at steady cruise throttle the DPFE should indicate 2.5 to 4.5 volts if it is flowing gasses
you already know about eng/cyl. head temps, make sure spark plug heat range is correct, a top end cleaner for carbon( be carful not ingest to much liquid into the running engine, easy to hydro-lock)
if fuel trims are good and all checks out, putting a duel trace scope on cam and crank signals to verify mechanical valve timing isn't a little out from wear causing fuel timing to be out

Take what helps leave the rest

GSF1200S · #23 12-14-2015, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RB7 Ranger

if the STFT is indicating lean (double digits) during closed loop is considered a lean condition
When you monitor the DPFE at cruise ,a closed valve voltage will be about 1 volt if not flowing EGR gasses
and at steady cruise throttle the DPFE should indicate 2.5 to 4.5 volts if it is flowing gasses
you already know about eng/cyl. head temps, make sure spark plug heat range is correct, a top end cleaner for carbon( be carful not ingest to much liquid into the running engine, easy to hydro-lock)
if fuel trims are good and all checks out, putting a duel trace scope on cam and crank signals to verify mechanical valve timing isn't a little out from wear causing fuel timing to be out

Take what helps leave the rest

Stft usually indicates +/- 3.5, and is constantly changing. Never has Ltft or stft hit double digits. Ltft is actually negative 4.7 at idle, and floats between 0 to -2 everywhere else. So, I actually have a slightly rich condition that's being corrected.

Also, even if I had a ltft of positive 11, would that cause that ping? I mean as long as the pcm is within its ability to adjust fuel trim, it should have the proper a/f ratio. Once it gets outside its limit (I think 15 or 20) it would set a bank 1 system too lean code, right?

As for the dpfe testing, I'll need to get a scanner with more data as the ultragauge doesn't do anything related to egr on the ranger. I also need to find the sensor

Thanks for the info on that- now of 87 brings the ping back I'll be able to check. I just took it for another drive and got it fully warmed up. Took it up some long hills, wound it out, lugged it- makes no difference- no ping at all.

Tyler46 · #24 12-20-2015, 11:59 AM

Okay Jay, here's the information you asked for. I figured all in pics is easier to understand. Lol

All this data was taken after running errands all morning, sitting in my driveway, nice day outside, maybe 65-70 degrees.

Idling in park. RPM normal range 840-870

Here's my truck holding 2500 RPM

And then I did what you said, and got the gauge to stay on with the motor off in the "on" position

Anything else I may have missed let me know!

GSF1200S · #25 12-20-2015, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyler46

Okay Jay, here's the information you asked for. I figured all in pics is easier to understand. Lol

All this data was taken after running errands all morning, sitting in my driveway, nice day outside, maybe 65-70 degrees.

Idling in park. RPM normal range 840-870

Here's my truck holding 2500 RPM

And then I did what you said, and got the gauge to stay on with the motor off in the "on" position

Anything else I may have missed let me know!

Excellent. This gives me very approximate indications of what I should be looking for. Ill compare making corrections for altitude and temp when it stops raining. Based on what I see it looks like im in the ballpark.. I do believe your truck uses a different protocol in regards to the OBD2 data it feeds to the ultragauge- your wording is different (instead of mass air mine is MAF1 g/s, etc). Still, flow rates should be similar despite small changes to the camshafts and manifold post 2003..

Owe you one. Need a favor let me know!

Tyler46 · #26 12-20-2015, 02:12 PM

In the menu for selecting the gauges I have an option for
MAF 1- g/s and
MAF 2 - g/s

Also for the barometric pressure and manifold pressure they have different wording when you go to select the gauges. But they get the point across.

Good luck!

02RangerFX4 · #27 12-21-2015, 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GSF1200S

Well I'm not the first person who's noted 240-265, so either its normal or more than one person is having serious overheating issues. The gauge on the cluster reads from a temperature sender that checks coolant temperature, while the ultragauge gets its temp from the cylinder head temperature sensor. It will take a good 20 minutes of driving for it to get up there. Next time you drive it take a look- I'd be interested to hear what yours settles in at

Your truck is running at 265°???? If I'm not mistaken boil over @15psi is around 270°..
I don't think your ultra gauge is reading the right temperatures.

Also, have you tried to see what the spark advance is while driving? Or does it ping at idle as well?

Tyler46 · #28 12-21-2015, 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 02RangerFX4

Your truck is running at 265°???? If I'm not mistaken boil over @15psi is around 270°.. I don't think your ultra gauge is reading the right temperatures.

Earlier we went over this. Mine reads no higher than 185* (even if I run that bitch up to 6 grand)

So we think his earlier Duratec model is reading actual cylinder head temp and my later model is reading water temp.

Coybus · #29 12-21-2015, 08:11 AM

i just ordered a new thermostat and spec was 208 degrees.

GSF1200S · #30 12-21-2015, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyler46

In the menu for selecting the gauges I have an option for
MAF 1- g/s and
MAF 2 - g/s

Also for the barometric pressure and manifold pressure they have different wording when you go to select the gauges. But they get the point across.

Good luck!

Thanks- it seems like im going to need luck

Quote:

Originally Posted by 02RangerFX4

Your truck is running at 265°???? If I'm not mistaken boil over @15psi is around 270°..
I don't think your ultra gauge is reading the right temperatures.

Also, have you tried to see what the spark advance is while driving? Or does it ping at idle as well?

I think I have a pretty discerning ear when it comes to ping, and I dont hear any ping at idle. The ping is also not consistent- sometimes I can go up a hill in 4th and it wont ping at all. Other times it will. Its most notable when making sudden changes in throttle position. I know it isnt anything else because with premium gas its GONE.

The spark advance seems pretty insane at times, but I know this comes with a knock-sensor'ed EFI vehicle. There's no way for me to know exactly what it should be unless I have Ford scan the PCM.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyler46

Earlier we went over this. Mine reads no higher than 185* (even if I run that bitch up to 6 grand)

So we think his earlier Duratec model is reading actual cylinder head temp and my later model is reading water temp.

^^^ I think around 06/07 something with the PCM was changed, and it reports different data. The links I posted above are examples of trucks- all in the early variants of the duratec- that read 240-265. The cooling system is near perfect now in my truck and runs mid temp gauge...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coybus

i just ordered a new thermostat and spec was 208 degrees.

What brand is the thermostat? The thermostat I just installed is 190 degrees and its motorcraft- I highly suggest you call the dealer and ask the parts department for information on what temperature the thermostat should be BEFORE installing that 208 degree one. The cooling systems in our trucks have way too much plastic to be running 18 degrees hotter all the time... It cant hurt right? Wouldnt want you to crack that damn hose tee or start venting like mad at the cap.

As an update, I put 87 in the other day and the ping returned. Definitely more prominent with more load. Filled tank with premium and again gone within 2-3 miles and hasnt returned since. Since im pretty strapped with Christmas here and all that, im just going to run premium until im paid in January. I know what I need to do though. My plan is:
1) Replace knock sensor in case its getting weak.
2) Pull transmission to do clutch slave (been meaning to do this anyways), and while at it remove EGR valve/DPFE sensor (if it has one? Havent verified yet..) to inspect.
3) Pick up and drop a borescope down into the cylinders to thoroughly inspect for carbon deposits. Based on everything Ive seen, they will be minimal. I might pull the intake manifold and have a look there as well.
4) Going to replace PCV valve as preventative, but also plan to route its vent to a catch can instead of the really stupid place Ford routed it (right next to the MAP sensor).
5) Take it to the dealer and have them perform a diagnostic. Direct them to plug into the computer and check for any modifications done to the fuel or timing curves, as well as to verify proper operation/alignment of camshaft and crankshaft position sensors.

Using Tyler's pics above, Ive verified that my MAF and MAP sensors appear to be in the ballpark of right. There are differences in temperature and barometric pressure and that has a cascading effect, but nonetheless it is close.

Still no codes, and seems to have good power, etc. If nothing else, someone else might find this thread useful for troubleshooting ping if it happens to them.