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  #1  
Old 11-30-2012, 06:11 PM
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Default O2 Sensor / System too Rich Fault Codes, Seems to be running fine??

Code:
P1132 - Powertrain 
Lack of Upstream Heated Oxygen Sensor Switch - Sensor Indicates Rich - Bank 1

P1152 - Powertrain
Lack of Upstream Heated Oxygen Sensor Switch - Sensor Indicates Rich - Bank 2

P0172 - Powertrain
System too Rich (Bank 1)

P0175 - Powertrain
System too Rich (Bank 2)

Those four fault codes just will not go away. I've replaced all O2 sensors, replaced the EGR Pressure Sensor. cleaned the MAF (which wasn't that old anyway, and wasn't dirty at all), and replaced the old spark plugs. I've also read that sometimes the OEM alternator causes voltage irregularities which could cause the injectors to fire too much fuel, so I replaced that as well. After 150 miles the fault codes still keep coming back every 20 miles or so. I pulled the plugs and they are running perfectly - no white residue (if it ran lean) and no black buildup (if it ran rich).

Here's a picture of the spark plug from cylinder 4 after 150 miles,



As you can see it's running just fine. There's no signs of the motor running rich at all - no lack of power, no smoke from the exhaust, etc.

What else could it be? Bad MAF? Bad PCM? After $135 for the alternator, $60 for each O2 sensor, $62 for the EGR pressure sensor, funds to keep throwing parts at it are getting dry.

Gas mileage is pretty average, getting about 12-13mpg around the neighborhood and around town.

Just trying to get this bloody CEL to go away.

all around to the one who can figure what what's going on here!
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  #2  
Old 11-30-2012, 08:19 PM
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Default Re: O2 Sensor / System too Rich Fault Codes, Seems to be running fine??

Quote:
Originally Posted by metallicamaster3 View Post
Code:
P1132 - Powertrain 
Lack of Upstream Heated Oxygen Sensor Switch - Sensor Indicates Rich - Bank 1

P1152 - Powertrain
Lack of Upstream Heated Oxygen Sensor Switch - Sensor Indicates Rich - Bank 2

P0172 - Powertrain
System too Rich (Bank 1)

P0175 - Powertrain
System too Rich (Bank 2)
Those four fault codes just will not go away. I've replaced all O2 sensors, replaced the EGR Pressure Sensor. cleaned the MAF (which wasn't that old anyway, and wasn't dirty at all), and replaced the old spark plugs. I've also read that sometimes the OEM alternator causes voltage irregularities which could cause the injectors to fire too much fuel, so I replaced that as well. After 150 miles the fault codes still keep coming back every 20 miles or so. I pulled the plugs and they are running perfectly - no white residue (if it ran lean) and no black buildup (if it ran rich).

Here's a picture of the spark plug from cylinder 4 after 150 miles,



As you can see it's running just fine. There's no signs of the motor running rich at all - no lack of power, no smoke from the exhaust, etc.

What else could it be? Bad MAF? Bad PCM? After $135 for the alternator, $60 for each O2 sensor, $62 for the EGR pressure sensor, funds to keep throwing parts at it are getting dry.

Gas mileage is pretty average, getting about 12-13mpg around the neighborhood and around town.

Just trying to get this bloody CEL to go away.

all around to the one who can figure what what's going on here!
The codes are counter intuitive, so P1132 and P1152 are telling the ECM that the engine is running rich, the ECM will command the injectors lean mixture as indicated by the look of the sparkplug...A little scary in fact!!! Running too lean can melt pistons!!

What you need to do is take a deep breath and not throw anymore parts at it.... Rent or buy a scanner that reads live data so you can see if the O2 sensors are in fact working like they should...

We are all going to need alot more info about your truck, ie, Engine, Trans ,rear gearing ,4WD or 2WD and Year ...to really help you..!!
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  #3  
Old 11-30-2012, 08:35 PM
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Default Re: O2 Sensor / System too Rich Fault Codes, Seems to be running fine??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rangerman49 View Post
The codes are counter intuitive, so P1132 and P1152 are telling the ECM that the engine is running rich, the ECM will command the injectors lean mixture as indicated by the look of the sparkplug...A little scary in fact!!! Running too lean can melt pistons!!

What you need to do is take a deep breath and not throw anymore parts at it.... Rent or buy a scanner that reads live data so you can see if the O2 sensors are in fact working like they should...

We are all going to need alot more info about your truck, ie, Engine, Trans ,rear gearing ,4WD or 2WD and Year ...to really help you..!!
That spark plug is completely clean, it isn't running lean (or rich) at all. They're all good burning plugs.


I have a scanner that can read PID data. The O2 sensors are brand new and are functioning correctly according to the PID data.


It's a 2001 base model. Transmission and rear end aren't even nearly related so I figured it was unnecessary information. Since you asked, though, it's an automatic with 3.73 rear end, 2WD.
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  #4  
Old 11-30-2012, 08:59 PM
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Default Re: O2 Sensor / System too Rich Fault Codes, Seems to be running fine??

Quote:
Originally Posted by metallicamaster3 View Post
That spark plug is completely clean, it isn't running lean (or rich) at all. They're all good burning plugs.


I have a scanner that can read PID data. The O2 sensors are brand new and are functioning correctly according to the PID data.


It's a 2001 base model. Transmission and rear end aren't even nearly related so I figured it was unnecessary information. Since you asked, though, it's an automatic with 3.73 rear end, 2WD.
OK, so your O2 sensors are switching ,correct????
And you MAF sensor reading???
Engine type.??
The MAF sensors are NOT the same between the various engine as they have different calibration curves.
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Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.

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  #5  
Old 11-30-2012, 09:56 PM
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Default Re: O2 Sensor / System too Rich Fault Codes, Seems to be running fine??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rangerman49 View Post
OK, so your O2 sensors are switching ,correct????
And you MAF sensor reading???
Engine type.??
The MAF sensors are NOT the same between the various engine as they have different calibration curves.
Just ordered a new MAF, should be here on Tuesday or Wednesday. It was reading 1.24cfm with the truck off?


Here's some PID data. O2 sensors are switching correctly. It's a non-FFV 3.0 Vulcan.


Running:




Bank 2, Sensor 2 always stays at 1.27v. There's only 3 O2 sensors on my truck. Any ideas?




O2 sensor data graph (shows everything normal):







The fault codes:



Last edited by metallicamaster3; 11-30-2012 at 10:00 PM.
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  #6  
Old 11-30-2012, 11:10 PM
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Default Re: O2 Sensor / System too Rich Fault Codes, Seems to be running fine??

O2 sensor bank 2 ,sensor 2 ... is way too high!!!
There's a conflict between sensor 1 and 2 on bank 2...
0.15 = lean and 0.85 = rich

Bank 1 looks fine....Bank 2 running rich..
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Last edited by Rangerman49; 11-30-2012 at 11:14 PM.
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  #7  
Old 11-30-2012, 11:19 PM
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Default Re: O2 Sensor / System too Rich Fault Codes, Seems to be running fine??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rangerman49 View Post
O2 sensor bank 2 ,sensor 2 ... is way too high!!!
There's a conflict between sensor 1 and 2 on bank 2...
0.15 = lean and 0.85 = rich

Bank 1 looks fine....Bank 2 running rich..
Thing is, there's only three O2 sensors. Two upstream and one downstream. The exhaust is not factory, I believe.


And the fault codes are saying that both banks are indicating rich. No idea why it's saying "lack of heated upstream oxygen sensor switch", as if it thinks there's no O2 sensors on there at all??
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  #8  
Old 12-01-2012, 11:39 AM
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Default Re: O2 Sensor / System too Rich Fault Codes, Seems to be running fine??

Quote:
Originally Posted by metallicamaster3 View Post
Thing is, there's only three O2 sensors. Two upstream and one downstream. The exhaust is not factory, I believe.


And the fault codes are saying that both banks are indicating rich. No idea why it's saying "lack of heated upstream oxygen sensor switch", as if it thinks there's no O2 sensors on there at all??
If sensor 2 bank 2 stays at 1.27v, it's dead or there's something going on with the wires for that sensor. You could disconnect it and see if it falls to 0v.
Your base voltage is 0.45v and will swing as high as 0.85v and as low as 0.15v.
I would take a look at long term and short term fuel trims too, to see whats going on there too.

----------

On a stock exhaust system on fords on all the V6s that I've seen, there should be four O2s, two up stream and 2 down stream of each CAT.
I tell you I'm confused !!
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  #9  
Old 12-01-2012, 12:15 PM
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Default Re: O2 Sensor / System too Rich Fault Codes, Seems to be running fine??

Wait a minute. Lets back up here. Look at the information you've posted. You've shown that a non-existent sensor is reporting an overly rich condition to the computer. And you're trying to correct that overly rich condition. Hello. You're trying to fix something that doesn't exist!!!


I can tell you EXACTLY what is going on here:

You have a fourth oxygen sensor that isn't hooked up due to your aftermarket exhaust system. It's either dangling down somewhere, or the wires are taped off and corroding with water in them. This is resulting in the computer receiving what it interprets as an extremely rich condition on that sensor's circuit. This is causing the P0175 in bank 2.

Due to this false rich condition, the computer is leaning out the fuel trim to it's maximum limits. This is why those plugs look so clean with no fuel on them, you're engine is running dangerously lean. Shit is going to start going fukushima in there soon.

With fuel trim leaned out all the way, the sensor is still reading the same rich condition. That is what is meant by switching, or in this case, not switching. The computer was expecting to see a change (switch) in a certain amount of time and that change did not happen. This is what is causing the P1152 in bank 2. This code isn't because it is running rich. It is because it isn't changing.

So, before you do anything else, you need to find the sensor or the wires for your "missing" Bank 2 #2 sensor. For now, you should disconnect whatever is on it, clean off the ends and makes sure the wires are not damaged or broken. Tape it up and leave it disconnected. Disconnect the battery for a while to erase it's memory and see what it relearns. It will detect the sensor isn't there, which is fine. That is better than detecting bad information.
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Last edited by FireRanger; 12-01-2012 at 12:17 PM.
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  #10  
Old 12-01-2012, 12:21 PM
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Default Re: O2 Sensor / System too Rich Fault Codes, Seems to be running fine??

Yes that plug is lean it should have some soot


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  #11  
Old 12-01-2012, 01:02 PM
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Default Re: O2 Sensor / System too Rich Fault Codes, Seems to be running fine??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rangerman49 View Post
If sensor 2 bank 2 stays at 1.27v, it's dead or there's something going on with the wires for that sensor. You could disconnect it and see if it falls to 0v.
Your base voltage is 0.45v and will swing as high as 0.85v and as low as 0.15v.
I would take a look at long term and short term fuel trims too, to see whats going on there too.

----------

On a stock exhaust system on fords on all the V6s that I've seen, there should be four O2s, two up stream and 2 down stream of each CAT.
I tell you I'm confused !!
Right - that's what I mean, Bank 2 Sensor 2 doesn't exist. Where should it exist on a stock system, so I can look for any wires?? Further back on the exhaust? If it falls to 0v then it should just detect that there's no O2 sensor and give me a fault code for that - if I'm understanding correctly - and will stop trying to correct an over-rich condition that doesn't exist.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FireRanger View Post
Wait a minute. Lets back up here. Look at the information you've posted. You've shown that a non-existent sensor is reporting an overly rich condition to the computer. And you're trying to correct that overly rich condition. Hello. You're trying to fix something that doesn't exist!!!


I can tell you EXACTLY what is going on here:

You have a fourth oxygen sensor that isn't hooked up due to your aftermarket exhaust system. It's either dangling down somewhere, or the wires are taped off and corroding with water in them. This is resulting in the computer receiving what it interprets as an extremely rich condition on that sensor's circuit. This is causing the P0175 in bank 2.

Due to this false rich condition, the computer is leaning out the fuel trim to it's maximum limits. This is why those plugs look so clean with no fuel on them, you're engine is running dangerously lean. Shit is going to start going fukushima in there soon.

With fuel trim leaned out all the way, the sensor is still reading the same rich condition. That is what is meant by switching, or in this case, not switching. The computer was expecting to see a change (switch) in a certain amount of time and that change did not happen. This is what is causing the P1152 in bank 2. This code isn't because it is running rich. It is because it isn't changing.

So, before you do anything else, you need to find the sensor or the wires for your "missing" Bank 2 #2 sensor. For now, you should disconnect whatever is on it, clean off the ends and makes sure the wires are not damaged or broken. Tape it up and leave it disconnected. Disconnect the battery for a while to erase it's memory and see what it relearns. It will detect the sensor isn't there, which is fine. That is better than detecting bad information.

On it!!!


Thank you!! There's some pinging now that I think about it, so I think you're right on all accounts!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redneckstone View Post
Yes that plug is lean it should have some soot



Gotcha! Going out to look for the phantom O2 sensor now!
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  #12  
Old 12-01-2012, 01:35 PM
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Default Re: O2 Sensor / System too Rich Fault Codes, Seems to be running fine??

Can't find any wires or anything after the Bank 1 Sensor 2 (plugged into the cat and functioning properly).

Bank 2 sensor 2 is still reading 1.27v constantly. Where can I look in the wiring under the hood to maybe just snip those wires out completely??
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  #13  
Old 12-01-2012, 02:24 PM
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Default Re: O2 Sensor / System too Rich Fault Codes, Seems to be running fine??

Here is me looking for the phantom O2 sensor...


http://youtu.be/dt8z2vstH2w

----------

According to absolutely everywhere, my 3.0 truck is only supposed to have 3 O2 sensors...
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  #14  
Old 12-01-2012, 02:29 PM
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Default Re: O2 Sensor / System too Rich Fault Codes, Seems to be running fine??

What engine do you have?
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  #15  
Old 12-01-2012, 02:31 PM
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Default Re: O2 Sensor / System too Rich Fault Codes, Seems to be running fine??

Quote:
Originally Posted by FireRanger View Post
What engine do you have?
Non-FFV 3.0
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