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  #16  
Old 03-03-2014, 01:44 PM
modelageek modelageek is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by extramedium View Post

O'Reilly's didn't sell me any injectors. They didn't even ask to, nor did they suggest I do anything, at all. They simply read the codes for me. I had Baxter's order remanufactured OEM injectors before anyone gave me any advice at either store.

When people give me absolutisms, I tend to disregard their information. This is a complex issue that could end up having a lot of different solutions. From what I've read, there are lots of these issues with this exact engine, all of which require(d) different fixes. I understand that you feel you are very educated on this situation, but there are several things you've said to me that throw up red flags as to your competence on what my specific problem is.

For example: Why would I check the compression, if this is an intermittent problem? I did not put any "stop leak" stuff in the radiator, and I just replaced the head gasket coupled with new cylinder heads. Does it make sense why I think that is a terrible idea to check compression at this point? Secondarily, if this was a spark plug/spark plug wire problem, how could it be intermittent? If the spark plug is broken, it's broken, same with the cracked engine block. Those are not things that come and go. Once they are bad, they stay bad.

IMO, this is a situation that is dealing with electronic lapses, or a mechanical system that is directly affected by electronics like fuel injectors, the distributor, or a sensor. That being said, nobody has a definitive answer on this issue, but my gut feeling is that it is a gummy injector that frees itself up after getting warm, or a sensor on it's way out. Does that make sense?

Sorry for the TL;DR, and I'm not trying to argue or fight with you on this, but you're not making sense to me...

-----------

This morning I drove the truck for about 100 miles in city traffic so I could get several runs through the RPMs. I started it up, let it warm up, then took it out. When I started it for the first time, the idle was rough, and there was white smoke. When I got in the truck and drove it a block, the situation stopped completely. No white smoke, no rough idle, and continued that way throughout the entire trip. It didn't stumble once. I turned the truck off a couple of times to see what would happen... Didn't change. Ran great after start up, and the entire 100 miles.

I read just about every entry into this discussion page on this issue. Several people having the exact same problem I have. This particular page/post was the only suggestion that seemed like a good thing to check. Check under "Casey" about 6 posts down. I apologize if linking other forums is against the rules.

He/she ended up changing the differential pressure feedback EGR and that cured their problem... So I'm going to replace the DPFE, the EGR valve, and the PCV valve when I replace the #1 and #2 injectors. Then clear the codes, and restart... Then I'll report back.

If that doesn't clear the problem up, I will check the fuel pressure (fuel pump), but I'll let the Ford dealership handle that, because I'd like them to dig deeper into what is causing this. If it is an electrical issue, I'm definitely not qualified.

----------

Interesting that you'd ask this... I make my own fuel (ethanol) most of the time. However, right now I'm in school, and have been running supreme gasoline in it for a couple weeks to spare me some time.

Maybe it was the gasoline... I remove the water to around 99% with a 3 angstrom molecular sieve called "Zeolite" in "my" fuel, so I doubt it was my fuel... That does correlate to the fuel injector being gummed up, though. I'll know more later...
I reread my post and i am going to stick with my DX procedure. Bad plugs and bad compression can be intermittent. I did post the compression test last with a "if needed" . I read Casey's two posts. His first one mentioning the DPFE will throw a p0401 or a p0402 99% of the time. you don't have those codes. His second post where he fixed a 456 misfire with a new coilpack is virtually impossible. The coilpacks are in pairs. 1,5 2,6 3,4

Finally you got trolled earlier by 2 of the FRF resident trolls. Those posts were deleted. Also leaving the info about the fuel out was mistake on your part. I will stay subscribed to see the outcome but will not comment anymore. I don't get paid enough for the needless aggravation. Best of luck!
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2004 Ext Cab, 4WD, 4.0, Auto, 154k. (4.0 engine is out of a 2009 Ranger w/96k) ( as of 7/1/2017)

2004 Ranger, Ext Cab, 2WD, 3.0, 5 speed , 4WABS, crank windows, no cruise, Edge 116k.(6/5,2014) (SOLD).
1999 Ford Ranger, Reg Cab, 2.5, 5 speed, 2WD, no AC, 150k (SOLD).
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  #17  
Old 03-03-2014, 02:03 PM
modelageek modelageek is offline
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Originally Posted by sh8zen View Post
For this discussion to proceed, we must assume your homebrewed fuel is equivalent to E85 and your Flex Fuel sensor is working properly.

Anyway, P0171 indicates Cyls 1,2,3 are running lean. P0174 indicates that Cyls 4,5,6 are running lean.

Your whole engine is running lean, this is not a Cyl#1 issue, Cyl#1 just happens to be the first to be affected enough to pop a code (P0301).

The factory troubleshooting guide for P0301 says not to do anything about this if accompanied by either of the other 2. So in short, deal with the P0171 & P0174 first, then if the P0301 remains, deal with it .

The most common cause for a P0171 & P0174 to be triggered at the same time is a vacuum leak. Guess what? a vacuum leak causes an engine to run rough at idle an usually smooth at higher revs.

Another possibility for the leanness is that the engine is burning a mixture of residual ethanol left in the tank and gasoline. This could confuse the computer via the flex fuel sensor that can't make it's mind up (mapping for ethanol but consuming mostly gasoline or the other way around). That would also explain the intermittency of it too. You might fine it will slowly clear itself up with each tank of fuel that is the same as the last tank.
One last comment on this post. The different fuels could be causing these issues. I would not use premium gas. I would just run regular gas for a few tanks. Ethanol usually super cleans an engine, keep that in mind while DXing your engine!
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2004 Ext Cab, 4WD, 4.0, Auto, 154k. (4.0 engine is out of a 2009 Ranger w/96k) ( as of 7/1/2017)

2004 Ranger, Ext Cab, 2WD, 3.0, 5 speed , 4WABS, crank windows, no cruise, Edge 116k.(6/5,2014) (SOLD).
1999 Ford Ranger, Reg Cab, 2.5, 5 speed, 2WD, no AC, 150k (SOLD).

Last edited by modelageek; 03-03-2014 at 02:40 PM.
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  #18  
Old 03-03-2014, 02:33 PM
Bob C. of Indiana Bob C. of Indiana is offline
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Default Re: 2000 3.0 FFV 2WD White Smoke and Rough Idle

You might add a couple of bottles of Stabil with your regular fuel to eliminate the moisture too.
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  #19  
Old 03-03-2014, 02:45 PM
extramedium extramedium is offline
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Default Re: 2000 3.0 FFV 2WD White Smoke and Rough Idle

Thanks for the advice.

The DPFE has two lines (vacuum?) running in/out of it. Could that be the problem? The EGR valve has a vacuum line in the top of it, and the PCV valve is at the end of a vacuum line, as well. So, long story short, I kind of agree with you in a round about way.

I'm going to take off the upper intake manifold to get at the PCV valve, and make changing the DPFE, and EGR valve easier, which is why I decided to change the #1 fuel injector, just in case...

I think it is getting narrowed down. Are there any other vacuum lines, or sensors connected to vacuum lines I should be checking out while I have the upper manifold off, in your opinion? The sensors don't arrive at the store until later this afternoon, so I have time to keep searching before I start the repair.

BTW, there has been a few tanks of gasoline through it since the last E85 was in the tank. There wouldn't be any residual left in there. This is the first time I've heard the E85 sensor to cause this situation, though. Not saying that isn't a possibility, but why? I don't see the connection...
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  #20  
Old 03-03-2014, 02:57 PM
Bob C. of Indiana Bob C. of Indiana is offline
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Default Re: 2000 3.0 FFV 2WD White Smoke and Rough Idle

Quote:
Originally Posted by extramedium View Post
Thanks for the advice.

The DPFE has two lines (vacuum?) running in/out of it. Could that be the problem? The EGR valve has a vacuum line in the top of it, and the PCV valve is at the end of a vacuum line, as well. So, long story short, I kind of agree with you in a round about way.

I'm going to take off the upper intake manifold to get at the PCV valve, and make changing the DPFE, and EGR valve easier, which is why I decided to change the #1 fuel injector, just in case...

I think it is getting narrowed down. Are there any other vacuum lines, or sensors connected to vacuum lines I should be checking out while I have the upper manifold off, in your opinion? The sensors don't arrive at the store until later this afternoon, so I have time to keep searching before I start the repair.

BTW, there has been a few tanks of gasoline through it since the last E85 was in the tank. There wouldn't be any residual left in there. This is the first time I've heard the E85 sensor to cause this situation, though. Not saying that isn't a possibility, but why? I don't see the connection...
You might check the EGR while your at it as they can cause misses too when carboned up.
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  #21  
Old 03-03-2014, 03:05 PM
extramedium extramedium is offline
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Default Re: 2000 3.0 FFV 2WD White Smoke and Rough Idle

Quote:
Originally Posted by modelageek View Post
I reread my post and i am going to stick with my DX procedure. Bad plugs and bad compression can be intermittent. I did post the compression test last with a "if needed" . I read Casey's two posts. His first one mentioning the DPFE will throw a p0401 or a p0402 99% of the time. you don't have those codes. His second post where he fixed a 456 misfire with a new coilpack is virtually impossible. The coilpacks are in pairs. 1,5 2,6 3,4

Finally you got trolled earlier by 2 of the FRF resident trolls. Those posts were deleted. Also leaving the info about the fuel out was mistake on your part. I will stay subscribed to see the outcome but will not comment anymore. I don't get paid enough for the needless aggravation. Best of luck!
Who is trolling? I don't recall anyone trolling.

I also didn't realize you get paid to give advice. I still don't understand why you think I should take that sequence of diagnosing.

Like I said, I've yet to hear the E85 sensor as a culprit in this problem from anyone, anywhere. I also don't really see how that could correlate. Maybe I'm a little slow? If that is a sensor that could fix this problem, I'll change it. The vacuum lines made sense. The sensors make sense. The E85 sensor, not so much. Not saying it's wrong, just that I don't understand why. Either way, I plan on having the parts store order me one should these sensors not fix the problem.

BTW, went to lunch earlier. When I started the truck cold, I had white smoke, but no rough idle. Smoke went away after a couple miles, and it didn't misfire at all as far as I could tell...

Thanks for your help.
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  #22  
Old 03-03-2014, 03:17 PM
modelageek modelageek is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by extramedium View Post

Who is trolling? I don't recall anyone trolling.

I also didn't realize you get paid to give advice. I still don't understand why you think I should take that sequence of diagnosing.

Like I said, I've yet to hear the E85 sensor as a culprit in this problem from anyone, anywhere. I also don't really see how that could correlate. Maybe I'm a little slow? If that is a sensor that could fix this problem, I'll change it. The vacuum lines made sense. The sensors make sense. The E85 sensor, not so much. Not saying it's wrong, just that I don't understand why. Either way, I plan on having the parts store order me one should these sensors not fix the problem.

BTW, went to lunch earlier. When I started the truck cold, I had white smoke, but no rough idle. Smoke went away after a couple miles, and it didn't misfire at all as far as I could tell...

Thanks for your help.
The troll's post got deleted by the Mods. I don't get paid. It was a joke.

When I do my internet DX I consider a lot of things, i.e. tools available, cost of parts, skill level, communication, etc. If the truck was in my shop I might do it a little differently.

One last thing if you are having a parts store order parts and you have to wait you might as well order them yourself from rockauto. Best of luck! Make sure you post the solution when you figure it out!
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2004 Ext Cab, 4WD, 4.0, Auto, 154k. (4.0 engine is out of a 2009 Ranger w/96k) ( as of 7/1/2017)

2004 Ranger, Ext Cab, 2WD, 3.0, 5 speed , 4WABS, crank windows, no cruise, Edge 116k.(6/5,2014) (SOLD).
1999 Ford Ranger, Reg Cab, 2.5, 5 speed, 2WD, no AC, 150k (SOLD).

Last edited by modelageek; 03-03-2014 at 03:24 PM.
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  #23  
Old 03-03-2014, 03:36 PM
extramedium extramedium is offline
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Default Re: 2000 3.0 FFV 2WD White Smoke and Rough Idle

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob C. of Indiana View Post
You might check the EGR while your at it as they can cause misses too when carboned up.
Do you mean the EGR tube?

I'm changing the EGR valve, DPFE, and the PCV valve tonight. Will report back as soon as I'm done and have driven it a bit.

For the thread's benefit, I'll say that everything you guys tell me, I'm checking it in the 2000 Ranger workshop manual. Not a Haynes... The actual technician manual. If you own a Ranger, I highly recommend it. Great reference. Expensive, though.

Looked up the flex fuel sensor, and called the parts store to check pricing... $640.00 OH LAAAAWD! Might have to check around the junk yards for that puppy. Wow. How can that thing cost more than two cylinder heads? Changing that when all else fails. HOLY **** that is expensive for a little sensor...

Other than my time, I'm into this project less than $1000.00 bucks right now. Not bad for all I've done. That E85 sensor will suck if it gets heaped onto the total.
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  #24  
Old 03-03-2014, 03:43 PM
Bob C. of Indiana Bob C. of Indiana is offline
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Default Re: 2000 3.0 FFV 2WD White Smoke and Rough Idle

Check www.rockauto.com as suggested for their price on the sensor.
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  #25  
Old 03-03-2014, 03:45 PM
extramedium extramedium is offline
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Default Re: 2000 3.0 FFV 2WD White Smoke and Rough Idle

Quote:
Originally Posted by modelageek View Post
The troll's post got deleted by the Mods. I don't get paid. It was a joke.

When I do my internet DX I consider a lot of things, i.e. tools available, cost of parts, skill level, communication, etc. If the truck was in my shop I might do it a little differently.

One last thing if you are having a parts store order parts and you have to wait you might as well order them yourself from rockauto. Best of luck! Make sure you post the solution when you figure it out!
Thanks for this advice. Especially if I need to get the flex fuel sensor. rockauto.com wants $450ish for the flex fuel sensor. If I have to do that, that's the route I'm taking.

I'm a machinist, and a tool collector, BTW. I have a pretty decent shop with all the tools I need. Plus this isn't my only vehicle, it's just the one I like to drive the most because I let my dog in it. I love driving him around the forests of Washington exploring, and such. He went with me today at lunch for the first time in a while. He was very excited...

Thanks for your advice. I will keep this thread updated as I make more changes.
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  #26  
Old 03-04-2014, 02:41 AM
extramedium extramedium is offline
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Default Re: 2000 3.0 FFV 2WD White Smoke and Rough Idle

Okay, $308.00 and 2 hours work produced what I think is a solution to the second problem. Tonight I replaced the #1 injector (couldn't bring myself to change #2((not worth it))), PCV valve, EGR valve and DPFE along with the hoses that went to it.

Seems like a new truck. Picked up some horsepower, and it shifts through the gears much cleaner. No delay, no rattling, and no misfire.

I did see a small amount (compared to what it was doing) of white smoke, only until it was warm, then done Dundee, and gone Gandhi. I'm feeling good about this. I'm not going to hold my breath, though.

Let me do a rundown of everything that happened in sequence for the thread's sake.

1) Out of nowhere engine started to lose significant horsepower, and blew white smoke with water following out of the tailpipe. Remained constant, and did not change for one day.
2) Hoping it would fix the problem, I had the fuel filter changed. Didn't help, if anything, it got worse. Stopped driving it that day. Drove another car, and my dog stayed at home bummin'.
3) Read everything I could on the internet, and the technician manual, as well as watched copious amounts of Youtube videos of people with similar problems. The diagnosis I made was a blown head gasket due to the oil in the coolant, coolant in the oil, and exhaust in the coolant (or so I thought)...
4) Replaced the head gasket and installed remanufactured heads, then replaced the #5 injector when I knocked it off the fuel rail while tightening a nut, breaking the tip off. Cleared the codes and restarted.
5) Had white smoke (with no water in out the tailpipe) and a misfire that was making the engine rough during idle, but not as bad as it was before I replaced the head gasket...
6) Came here, registered, complained to my wife and dog, and spilled my guts about my situation to you. Then read as much as I could about people with similar situations.
7) Ended up changing the DPFE, EGR valve, PCV valve, and the #1 injector.

Things seem to be working well...

Here is a rundown of expenses for this project.

FEL PRO head gasket set...$109.99
Head bolts...$21.99 each box ($44 total)
Remanufactured cylinder heads...$150 each ($300 total)
3 bottles of NAPA 50/50 coolant...$33
DPFE, EGR valve, PCV valve, 2 fuel injectors, and 2.5 feet of vacuum line...$380 (ish)
RTV, Glue, and never seize copper...$20
For a total of around $880 (ish) bucks. Not bad, IMHO.
It took me around 40 hours total time invested in work.

Thanks for reading. Hope this helps someone. I'll keep updating this thread if anything changes.
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  #27  
Old 03-04-2014, 02:45 AM
Bob C. of Indiana Bob C. of Indiana is offline
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Default Re: 2000 3.0 FFV 2WD White Smoke and Rough Idle

Quote:
Originally Posted by extramedium View Post
Okay, $308.00 and 2 hours work produced what I think is a solution to the second problem. Tonight I replaced the #1 injector (couldn't bring myself to change #2((not worth it))), PCV valve, EGR valve and DPFE along with the hoses that went to it.

Seems like a new truck. Picked up some horsepower, and it shifts through the gears much cleaner. No delay, no rattling, and no misfire.

I did see a small amount (compared to what it was doing) of white smoke, only until it was warm, then done Dundee, and gone Gandhi. I'm feeling good about this. I'm not going to hold my breath, though.

Let me do a rundown of everything that happened in sequence for the thread's sake.

1) Out of nowhere engine started to lose significant horsepower, and blew white smoke with water following out of the tailpipe. Remained constant, and did not change for one day.
2) Hoping it would fix the problem, I had the fuel filter changed. Didn't help, if anything, it got worse. Stopped driving it that day. Drove another car, and my dog stayed at home bummin'.
3) Read everything I could on the internet, and the technician manual, as well as watched copious amounts of Youtube videos of people with similar problems. The diagnosis I made was a blown head gasket due to the oil in the coolant, coolant in the oil, and exhaust in the coolant (or so I thought)...
4) Replaced the head gasket and installed remanufactured heads, then replaced the #5 injector when I knocked it off the fuel rail while tightening a nut, breaking the tip off. Cleared the codes and restarted.
5) Had white smoke (with no water in out the tailpipe) and a misfire that was making the engine rough during idle, but not as bad as it was before I replaced the head gasket...
6) Came here, registered, complained to my wife and dog, and spilled my guts about my situation to you. Then read as much as I could about people with similar situations.
7) Ended up changing the DPFE, EGR valve, PCV valve, and the #1 injector.

Things seem to be working well...

Here is a rundown of expenses for this project.

FEL PRO head gasket set...$109.99
Head bolts...$21.99 each box ($44 total)
Remanufactured cylinder heads...$150 each ($300 total)
3 bottles of NAPA 50/50 coolant...$33
DPFE, EGR valve, PCV valve, 2 fuel injectors, and 2.5 feet of vacuum line...$380 (ish)
RTV, Glue, and never seize copper...$20
For a total of around $880 (ish) bucks. Not bad, IMHO.
It took me around 40 hours total time invested in work.

Thanks for reading. Hope this helps someone. I'll keep updating this thread if anything changes.
Great! Hope this cures your problem for good.Just think what a Ford garage would have cost you for 40 hours.
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  #28  
Old 03-04-2014, 02:49 AM
extramedium extramedium is offline
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Default Re: 2000 3.0 FFV 2WD White Smoke and Rough Idle

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob C. of Indiana View Post
Great! Hope this cures your problem for good.Just think what a Ford garage would have cost you for 40 hours.
I couldn't imagine doing something like this through a Ford dealer. Probably would have cost double what the truck is worth. I feel bad for people with no mechanical ability that need to trust those guys. OUCH!
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  #29  
Old 03-04-2014, 03:02 AM
Bob C. of Indiana Bob C. of Indiana is offline
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Default Re: 2000 3.0 FFV 2WD White Smoke and Rough Idle

Quote:
Originally Posted by extramedium View Post
I couldn't imagine doing something like this through a Ford dealer. Probably would have cost double what the truck is worth. I feel bad for people with no mechanical ability that need to trust those guys. OUCH!
You are very fortunate to have a 2nd vehicle,garage and tools to accomplish this task,lots of people on here don't.Well done!
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  #30  
Old 03-12-2014, 12:44 AM
extramedium extramedium is offline
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Default Re: 2000 3.0 FFV 2WD White Smoke and Rough Idle

Figured I'd update this thread given the events of the day.

For the last week my truck has been running great. Best gas mileage I've had since i bought it, the most horsepower, and generally running cleaner. When the engine is cold, there is still white smoke, but very little. As soon as it's warmed up, no trace of anything, and that's after 2 full tanks of gas has been through it.

I thought I'd get ahead of the game by ordering new oxygen sensors (all 3). They're en route now from RockAuto. Thanks for the advice Bob.

Today while doing some errands I noticed my fuel gauge kind of bouncing around. I've noticed in the past going uphill makes it seem more full, while going downhill is the opposite. Today it was all over the place, very erratic. Then while coming home from dinner my f***ing check engine light came on again. DAMMIT! Nothing happened with the behavior of the engine. Still running great...

Haven't had a chance to get the codes checked, but I'm guessing it is the fuel pump. Seems like the last month, everything is going bad... The only good thing about this stuff all happening is when I'm done with this next project (given no strange electrical problems) I shouldn't have anything else to change for 100k or more.

Question for the experts... There are 2 different Motorcraft fuel pumps at RockAuto. One says 126.0' wheelbase Flex, and the other says 118.0' Wheelbase. I'm going to ask Ford, but which one do I need to use? The Flex one I'm guessing?

TL;DR Truck is running great. Prior problems fixed. New problems surfaced today.
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