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  #1  
Old 09-18-2009, 10:13 PM
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Default 2.9 performance

i was woundering if there is anything i can do to get more power out of my 2.9.
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  #2  
Old 09-18-2009, 11:20 PM
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theres alot you can do it all depends what level you are looking for.
Are you looking for bolt on power, if your motor is healthy enough for it, or are you thinking of flowing the heads, getting better duration cams, and upgrading the ignition?
All it comes down to is how far you are wiling to take it, or can, money can be a concern and lack of skill as a mechanic is costly. Let us know.
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  #3  
Old 09-18-2009, 11:48 PM
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im looking for bolt on im not getting into heads or cams if i do that i may as well drop in a v8. and im lookin to do it somewhat cheap
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  #4  
Old 09-19-2009, 06:29 AM
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Go here: The Ranger Station - Technical Library
Ranger Engines > 2.9 V6 &
2.9 Tips (Kunz Korner)
Pat Kunz did a massive amount of work on a 2.9 Cologne engine and got 250+ HP out it.
I did some of his improvements and it really made a difference. Start with the throttle body and a cold air intake with a K&N or your choice of filter. (You will probably have to build your own which is simple and cost about $35 at Lowes, I can help you out there.)
FYI, the 86 and early 87 2.9's had a shorter deck height, .020, these engines were real HP makers. Pat had a 86 2.9L in a Ranger, it was a Corvette eater, so far as I can remember, the only thing that ate up his Ranger was a North Star or something like that.
My 86 B2 was a real hellcat after I got it to breath and opened up the exhaust, don"t go over board with the exhaust, a 2 1/4" with free flow muffler, good cats and the opened up intake is really all you want to start, then continue on with other mods.
I did the 5.0 throttle body later. The one I found was 70mm, (they can be had in at least 3 different sizes) I am not sure it was off of a 5.0. The adapter bolck I built out of 1" thick aluminum. I suggest you pick up an upper intake and do all your adapting to it and then install the whole unit.
I don't know if your Ranger came with a MAF or not, if so you won't need to adapt one in, if not find one that fits into the air intake hose, (be aware, some 5.0 throttle bodies have a MAF built into them beside the TPS).
For a few $$ outlay, and a considerable amount of time you can get some serious go out of a 2.9.

Ray
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  #5  
Old 09-19-2009, 06:34 AM
Psycho Pete
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camoranger View Post
im looking for bolt on im not getting into heads or cams if i do that i may as well drop in a v8. and im lookin to do it somewhat cheap
The upper and lower intakes don't line up well. Rocker arms spacers can be made to replace the springs in the rocker assemblies. A 86-87 TB can be swapped and is 58mm compared to the 53mm that you have. A 1990 California Emission computer can be swapped and with the appropriate wiring, you can add a MAS. Take out the slack of your accelerator cable with tie straps. Set your ignition timing to 12btdc. Do a GOOD tune up.

This is what I've learned about this engine -
CAIs do nothing for you on this engine, though the original intake system can be modded at the core support.
The different TB will give you different throttle response.
The stock heads for this engine are garbage and the valve springs tend to be pretty soft (float).
Real performance increases are expensive.
This engine does quite well for it's displacement, what you probably want is to re-gear.

I ran a cam with new heads (milled .030") on MAS setup with all sorts of mods. While it was fun building and driving, I ended up swapping a 5.0L in 6 years later. I actually just got it done and have put roughly 50 miles on it so far. Money for power ratio on a 2.9L isn't good.

Pete
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  #6  
Old 09-19-2009, 06:52 AM
Psycho Pete
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clem View Post
I did the 5.0 throttle body later.
I actually have a "kit" that I've been meaning to sell when I was going to put an M90 on mine.



Cost caused me to change streams, too much custom, the aftermarket is pretty small. But Camcraft does have some goodies (Power Max Heads, Computer Friendly Cams (mine was a non-computer friendly custom grind), and 1.5:1 roller rockers (stock is 1.43:1 IIRC).

Pete
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  #7  
Old 09-19-2009, 06:28 PM
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I always understood cold air was better than hot air when mixing with fuel.
Cold being denser than hot, it is supposed to fill the cylinder better.

Ray
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  #8  
Old 09-21-2009, 05:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clem View Post
I always understood cold air was better than hot air when mixing with fuel.
Cold being denser than hot, it is supposed to fill the cylinder better.

Ray
Yes, you are right - the air being more dense as it's colder.

But the stock intake system pulls air from the front core support, isolated from the engine bay. This is essentially a cold air intake from the factory, but there is a rain/junk guard that could somewhat bottle neck it at high RPM.

At lot of these intakes I see being built/installed actually don't pull any fresh air from outside, but the hot air that's under the hood. Sort of going backwards on that one. Aftermarket "CAIs" can be done for sure, but very rarely do I ever see a good setup made that's superior (ram air) to how the stock system works.

Pete
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  #9  
Old 09-21-2009, 06:08 AM
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Well I did a little back ground on this motor and it seems it is a bit of a father less Ford product. Obviously I always recommend running a CAI, for this motor you would need to make it a draft ram but the trick is it seems is that you also need to compensate the fuel as it seems to have meager mapping. Also the heads apparently are garbage. . . If you would seriously like to get some power from this motor it would seem that heads are going to be a must. If not into that, then run a good CAI setup, upgrade coils, plugs, wires, and step up to a Walbro and possibly upgraded injectors. It is really sad to see a V6 dancing along at 140HP, especially since with aging it's probably somewhere around 110HP. Another thing to do would be to keep stock exhaust but run decent headers. But by them time you do this you could probably get a 5.0 with harness. . . . . It would be double the output of the upgraded 2.9. . . . . sucks huh.
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  #10  
Old 09-21-2009, 07:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 02'4.04x4 View Post
trick is it seems is that you also need to compensate the fuel as it seems to have meager mapping.
I don't see why more fuel would need to be added in? Changing the stock air intake tube isn't going to the change the fact that the engine is only going to demand X amount of air.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 02'4.04x4 View Post
If not into that, then run a good CAI setup, upgrade coils, plugs, wires, and step up to a Walbro and possibly upgraded injectors.
In my experience with this engine, a MSD TFI Blaster II Coil made no difference over my stock one. But I did use Ford Racing plug wires, just because they are better quality than you get at the parts house. Also ran autolight or motocraft copper core (the cheap ones) in just about every Ford I've owned including my 5.0L. Also ran copper core A/C delcos in my old built up 327 with out any issues or complaints. There definitely wasn't any question in my mind that a platinum plug or a plug with multiple ground electrodes were going to unlock any "hidden" horse power in my N/A engines. Forced induction is where a coil upgrade or special plugs will come into play.

Bigger injectors will only cause problems, the 14lb/s injectors were also used in low performance 5.0Ls Fords, among other engines. The computer is programmed expecting the injectors to flow a certain amount of fuel. BTDT

Quote:
Originally Posted by 02'4.04x4 View Post
It is really sad to see a V6 dancing along at 140HP
It really doesn't do too bad for it's displacement. But it is an engine that was no longer used after '92, they are getting old and tired.

Pete
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  #11  
Old 09-21-2009, 07:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychopete View Post
I don't see why more fuel would need to be added in? Changing the stock air intake tube isn't going to the change the fact that the engine is only going to demand X amount of air.



In my experience with this engine, a MSD TFI Blaster II Coil made no difference over my stock one. But I did use Ford Racing plug wires, just because they are better quality than you get at the parts house. Also ran autolight or motocraft copper core (the cheap ones) in just about every Ford I've owned including my 5.0L. Also ran copper core A/C delcos in my old built up 327 with out any issues or complaints. There definitely wasn't any question in my mind that a platinum plug or a plug with multiple ground electrodes were going to unlock any "hidden" horse power in my N/A engines. Forced induction is where a coil upgrade or special plugs will come into play.

Bigger injectors will only cause problems, the 14lb/s injectors were also used in low performance 5.0Ls Fords, among other engines. The computer is programmed expecting the injectors to flow a certain amount of fuel. BTDT



It really doesn't do too bad for it's displacement. But it is an engine that was no longer used after '92, they are getting old and tired.

Pete
Hmmm, Blaster II with copper plugs. . . nuff said
Upgraded ignition will always help. (dynoable results.)

As for the fuel, that was information specific to this engine by friends of mine who run Bronco's, one bud alone has 3. . . 1 still being a 2.9 the others are running 351's now. I can ask the specific reason for this, but I tend to not look a gifted horse in the mouth.

I do not recall saying anything about bigger injectors. . .
Upgraded yes, i.e. not stock there is more than likely a reason beyond my experience for this.

I do not know the 2.9 motor, never had or dealt with one. Probably would not due to the apparent breathing issues with them as for tapping them.

It is like computers, yea a Gateway computer will surf the Web, but try to overclock it and it'll burn. . . . .
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Tweeked FPR, EBC 6k's, DynoMax-S CatBack, Jet-Chip, Reflex shocks,
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  #12  
Old 09-21-2009, 08:19 AM
Psycho Pete
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 02'4.04x4 View Post
Hmmm, Blaster II with copper plugs. . . nuff said
Upgraded ignition will always help. (dynoable results.)
What's wrong with copper core plugs? The only other plug I would consider using is iridium plugs for forced induction, or if the OEM application called for a platinum plug.

Here's a quote strait from an MSD tech guy, and this is even with using an MSD 6AL box:

Quote:
The MSD box will fire a $ .99 cent plug with the exact same intensity that it uses to fire a $6.00 plug. This is why we recommend you stay away from the so-called “hype plugs”. We are also aware that using the MSD with platinum plugs may increase the chances of pinging and detonating.
Spark plug gap with 6AL and blaster-SS - MSD Ignition Tech Support Forums

While this applies to their product, you'll see a lot of people recommend using what it came with from the factory (they do have millions of dollars to invest in testing after all). And this is the copper core plugs for this engine. I would reccomend you do some reading on how coils and ignition systems work.

Accel coil pack as an aftermarket ignition system? No way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 02'4.04x4 View Post
I do not recall saying anything about bigger injectors. . .
My mistake, upgraded to most is precieved as higher flow rate. Although the flow matched OEM Bosch Injectors I used on my motor worked fine. I do know accel makes 15lb/s injectors, but didn't use or have the urge to use them (because I didn't need to).

Quote:
Originally Posted by 02'4.04x4 View Post
I do not know the 2.9 motor, never had or dealt with one.
I do, and I have.

Pete
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Last edited by Psychopete; 09-21-2009 at 08:29 AM.
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  #13  
Old 09-21-2009, 09:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychopete View Post
What's wrong with copper core plugs? The only other plug I would consider using is iridium plugs for forced induction, or if the OEM application called for a platinum plug.

Here's a quote strait from an MSD tech guy, and this is even with using an MSD 6AL box:



Spark plug gap with 6AL and blaster-SS - MSD Ignition Tech Support Forums

While this applies to their product, you'll see a lot of people recommend using what it came with from the factory (they do have millions of dollars to invest in testing after all). And this is the copper core plugs for this engine. I would reccomend you do some reading on how coils and ignition systems work.

Accel coil pack as an aftermarket ignition system? No way.
Let's get it started.

Well, well , well where to begin.

Get a pen and paper here son, your gonna want to remember this.

Electricity jumps.

For atomization what works better and single overkill or a wide pattern for igniting compressed vapor. . . . .

Why don't you ask Mr. Tech?


Wonder why companies would have spent millions, designing alternate grounding nodes? As for running copper vs. anything else. . . are you kidding me? the direct purpouse of the modified plugs is resistance(ohms) per part, and atmospheric resistance. . . . .

Why don't you ask Mr. Tech?


The statement about firing a copper the same as any other hype plug. . . Duh
Same applied current to both. What does this have to do with vapor ignition? ? ? (you need to pay attention to what you are reading)

Before you go recommending someone go read on how ignition systems work, I suggest you have your own knowledge to bring to the table.

I have built and run many a toys off of a 6AL box. Great ignition, whay dont you ask MSD what MSD stands for and then compare Accel MS coil packs to MSD, Hmm, something seems relative in that statement.

Anymore education I'll have to start charging you.

With your inherent knowledge of the workings of engine components I'm sure your 2.9 that you know and have is a real monster. . . . .(sarcastically joking=p)

Another freebie for you: Imagine a motor company by your definiton stupid enough to build a motor developed over thousands of hours of engineering that would incorporate two spark plugs in the design of the motor. . . . .
it would be a complete waste and produce no more power than a single copper plug. . . . .

Is it hitting home yet?

Hint their colors are silver and blue. . .

Please Sir do enlighten me with your rebuttle this is so easy it is fun.

P.S. Keep in mind when propagandizing, they have to sell their product to as many people as possible. =)

this statement has not been evaluated by the food and drug administration and is not intended to treat or cure any diseases, it is merely to help avoid bad knowledge being passed on to others. All in good spirits of course.
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Tweeked FPR, EBC 6k's, DynoMax-S CatBack, Jet-Chip, Reflex shocks,
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Last edited by 02'4.04x4; 09-21-2009 at 10:20 AM.
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  #14  
Old 09-21-2009, 10:44 AM
Psycho Pete
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 02'4.04x4 View Post
For atomization what works better and single overkill or a wide pattern for igniting compressed vapor. . . . .
Atomization is what happens to fuel (mist), when the air fuel mixture ignites, this is call combustion.

You do realize that the 2.9L is a batch fire engine?

In the end, spark is spark. What you're describing is not going to make a notable difference here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 02'4.04x4 View Post
Wonder why companies would have spent millions, designing alternate grounding nodes? As for running copper vs. anything else. . . are you kidding me? the direct purpouse of the modified plugs is resistance(ohms) per part, and atmospheric resistance. . . . .
They've had multiple grounding electrodes for a long time, this is nothing new. The biggest benefit is extended plug life, same with plugs being made with precious metals. I'd rather change plugs sooner to monitor what's happening in my cylinders, but that's just me.
Electricity also follows the least path of resistance, so those multi-grounding plugs still only have one spark at a time. Copper is a very good conductor and also dissipates heat well.
Still waiting on your response as to what is wrong with copper core plugs in a mildly build engine?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 02'4.04x4 View Post
whay dont you ask MSD what MSD stands for and then compare Accel MS coil packs to MSD, Hmm, something seems relative in that statement.
You do notice I said that applies to their product, right? The statement was relative to you saying that MSD Blaster II and using copper
core plugs was some sort of problem? Must be fine if they recommend them.

I brought up the Accel statement because you seem to feel a simple coil justifies as an aftermarket ignition system (hardy even so).

Quote:
Originally Posted by 02'4.04x4 View Post
With your inherent knowledge of the workings of engine components I'm sure your 2.9 that you know and have is a real monster. . . . .(sarcastically joking)
I am sure with your bolt-ons, your Ranger is a real power house as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 02'4.04x4 View Post
Another freebie for you: Imagine a motor company by your definiton stupid enough to build a motor developed over thousands of hours of engineering that would incorporate two spark plugs in the design of the motor. . . . .
it would be a complete waste and produce no more power than a single copper plug. . . . .
Funny you should bring a completely different engine in to this.
Actually the dual spark plug design on the 2.3L actually completes the burn better. There is a larger area of spark, results in better emissions and slightly better fuel economy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 02'4.04x4 View Post
P.S. Keep in mind when propagandizing, they have to sell their product to as many people as possible. =)
Exactly. Just as long as sheeple will buy it, they will manufacture it.

Pete
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  #15  
Old 09-21-2009, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychopete View Post
Atomization is what happens to fuel (mist), when the air fuel mixture ignites, this is call combustion.
Oh is that how that works. C'mon are you serious?
Quote:
You do realize that the 2.9L is a batch fire engine?
You've got me there a batch fire engine cannot benifit from better combustion. . . . .
Quote:
In the end, spark is spark. What you're describing is not going to make a notable difference here.
You have got to be kidding me. Spark in a controlled enviroment. Your killing me here.
C'mon sparky try and keep up.

Quote:
They've had multiple grounding electrodes for a long time, this is nothing new. The biggest benefit is extended plug life, same with plugs being made with precious metals. I'd rather change plugs sooner to monitor what's happening in my cylinders, but that's just me.
Yea I suppose your right reduced resistance doesn't add up to hooey in the ignition system. . . Have you ever changed the plugs in a 4.0 2001 or newer Ranger? Not nice but besides he was looking to increase performance, not improve his engine monitoring habits, Focus here, are you taking your medications?

Quote:
Electricity also follows the least path of resistance, so those multi-grounding plugs still only have one spark at a time copper is a very good conductor and also dissipates heat well.
Hmm, again speaking far beyond what you apparently understand . . . . . Atomized vapor is, get this, conductive. . .
Let that sink in. So think about it very long and careful, the barrier for the arc is nullified by the vapor. i.e. the spark rides the vapor just like conductor, just like lightning disperses out then down(or in further education up). By having the purer nodes it allows the spark to hit at multiple points, igniting a "greater area" of the chamber. . . . . You should prolly read about this little thing called hemispherical combustion. . . . . When you understand the reason and benifit it'll help get you past this affair with copper and help this guy out.

Quote:
Still waiting on your response as to what is wrong with copper core plugs in a mildly build engine?
Did you read his post he wanted better. You go buy 2 new stock ford cars, I'll upgrade the ignition and you run stock victor takes his car home, i.e. me = ) Last I knew my F150's came with platinum plugs I must have missed the Forced induction on the options list? It also seems kind of idiotic that you posted Newer hype plugs lead to detonation and yet you only recommend using them in the set-ups prone to detonation? Are you actually reading what you post?

Quote:
You do notice I said that applies to their product, right? The statement was relative to you saying that MSD Blaster II and using copper core plugs was some sort of problem? Must be fine if they recommend them.
I wonder how many NHRA or NASCAR teams run them. . . . . ?
He is not looking for fine he is looking for better. . . . . Focus young skywalker. . .

Quote:
I brought up the Accel statement because you seem to feel a simple coil justifies as an aftermarket ignition system (hardy even so).
Hmmm, You got me there an Accel MS Pack is nothing like the MS D Pack. . . . . And I guess that you are saying a stock Ford coil is just as hot as a Blaster II epoxy coil? Yeah Ford. . .

Quote:
I am sure with your bolt-ons, your Ranger is a real power house as well.
I'd put it up against your 2.9 anyday. . . . . smartie

Quote:
Funny you should bring a completely different engine in to this.
Actually the dual spark plug design on the 2.3L actually completes the burn better. There is a larger area of spark, results in better emissions and slightly better fuel economy.
No what is funny is that you dismiss any benifit from a wider arc field, but yet you defend the engineering that put two plugs in one cylinder. Are you actually reading my responses? Do you actually understand what you are saying?

Quote:
Exactly. Just as long as sheeple will buy it, they will manufacture it.
Pete
It seems to be so, you bought their copper spark is just as potent as everything else?
You have to think about the enviroment. Sure .5amps is .5amps, but if standing in a fireworks factory would a 50cal. bullet get a bigger bang or an incendiary grenade. . . . .

This one better work Iam gonna copy it first.

Man my fingers are tired if this doesn't help you out then I am afraid I have to agree. Best of luck!
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Current Mods
White gauges and Temp Cntrl, OHCw/Buggman LED mod,
Bosch +4, Accel Coil Pack, MSD6AL, Walbro, HiFlo Fuel filter,
Custom Ram Air, K&N, Ported / Matched intake, JBA 9mm wires,
Tweeked FPR, EBC 6k's, DynoMax-S CatBack, Jet-Chip, Reflex shocks,
New Anvil Mounts, Timbren's, Optima Yellow, DB 220A Alt. w/4g. jumper,
Western snow plow, More2Come

Last edited by 02'4.04x4; 09-22-2009 at 06:12 PM.
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